Div 1 [VMSL Div 1] Predictions, Results & Banter 2019/2020

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SmartCoach

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Look if you put in more than 5 sub slips
You have deemed to have played a illegal player
You lose the game plus docked 3 points
The management of these 2 teams are irresponsible FASA this was their first year in the league
But not the case of metro Athletic
If their manager spent less time yelling f—c
And calmed down he not screw up the sub slips
He also would not get fined by the league
The referee reports after the game so no protest
By opposing teams Was done
Freedom of common sense
 

FC Red Star

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The fact is that every coach and/or manager should be organized and bring to the game 5 substitution slips marked 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, 4/5, and 5/5 so there is no way that anyone, in that case, could make a mistake and use 6th sub.

Anyway, does it really make any sense to punish a team that had 5:0 lead and then made 6th sub at the end of the game with 0:3 loss and 3 additional points deduction? Yes, as per current rules that is fine but every season we have some of those weird situations that, in my opinion, should be used as an excuse to adjust certain rules if at all possible.

Look, sh*t happens, OK, people make weird mistakes (such would be making 6th sub in 89th minute in a game where your team has 5:0 lead) but if the League can “rewind” the game (which was completed) back to 81st minute due to crucial mistake made by the ref (who did not apply properly one law of the game) then certainly there should be an option to look at some of those weird situation (or mistakes) and logically conclude that 6th sub in 89th minute at 5:0 lead did not affect the game so the rule of using an ineligible player really should not apply in a situation like that.

I am not sure if an extra/additional substitution falls under “Laws of the game” (and I am lazy to check current FIFA Laws) but maybe we can reword the rule re “ineligible player” so the teams are not severely punished for making a stupid mistake that absolutely did not affect the game. Just an idea.

By the way, I think it would be a good idea if somebody would start a new thread “VMSL Rules” where we could propose some changes to the current rules. Yes, I understand that there is Annual GM as appropriate place for that but I am talking about a discussion here that could lead to some ideas which anyone attending a meeting could use and propose officially a change.
 

robino

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By FIFA rules its not the teams but the referees fault that he allowed 6th sub. Ref needs to keep track on who is coming in and out. They are making good money anyway. Thats like ref giving same player two yellows but not does not show him the red after the second yellow. In no way should a team be deducted 3!points for something like this, espicially since there was no protest from anyone.
 
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Look if you put in more than 5 sub slips
You have deemed to have played a illegal player
You lose the game plus docked 3 points
The management of these 2 teams are irresponsible FASA this was their first year in the league
But not the case of metro Athletic
If their manager spent less time yelling f—c
And calmed down he not screw up the sub slips
He also would not get fined by the league
The referee reports after the game so no protest
By opposing teams Was done
Freedom of common sense
No one is arguing Metro didn't deserve to be punished for the extra sub. My point is the ties Westside has with the league resulted in the league taking action in order to give them a better chance to get promoted. There were numerous incidences that the league took no action against, and they had reports from referees. For example, in a couple of games this season GN had a player receive a red card and immediately after they would make a sub and throw on a player without another player actually coming off. They were caught twice in two different games by the opposing teams, and the referees in both games told the extra player to get off the field. The incidences were reported by the referees and the opposing teams' management, but no action from the league.
Now you tell me if that's worse or making an extra sub...and why didn't the league take action?
 

dezza

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They were caught twice in two different games by the opposing teams, and the referees in both games told the extra player to get off the field. The incidences were reported by the referees and the opposing teams' management, but no action from the league.
Which games?
 

Canucks4Ever

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By FIFA rules its not the teams but the referees fault that he allowed 6th sub. Ref needs to keep track on who is coming in and out. They are making good money anyway. Thats like ref giving same player two yellows but not does not show him the red after the second yellow. In no way should a team be deducted 3!points for something like this, espicially since there was no protest from anyone.
Which FIFA rule is this? Lots of information on the substitution procedure and the number of substitutes allowed in competition (based on league and federation discretion) but no where it says that the referee is to prevent teams from making additional substitutions or keep track of the number of substitutions each team has made. At least that I can find. Happy to be pointed to the specific text I am missing.

As I have said before, I think this is a non-starter. Whether or not the referees have the capacity to do this (I agree they should, but let's leave that aside for a moment), the issue then becomes enforcement, ability to protest and appropriate remedies. They all get murky if the league goes this route.
 

Canucks4Ever

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No one is arguing Metro didn't deserve to be punished for the extra sub. My point is the ties Westside has with the league resulted in the league taking action in order to give them a better chance to get promoted. There were numerous incidences that the league took no action against, and they had reports from referees. For example, in a couple of games this season GN had a player receive a red card and immediately after they would make a sub and throw on a player without another player actually coming off. They were caught twice in two different games by the opposing teams, and the referees in both games told the extra player to get off the field. The incidences were reported by the referees and the opposing teams' management, but no action from the league.
Now you tell me if that's worse or making an extra sub...and why didn't the league take action?
Substitution rules aside (and it appears that there is interest in revising these moving forward) what are you proposing to remedy the perceived issues on the board?

The VMSL is a member funded and run society - it stands to reason that the members with be directly involved with the administration of the society/league. This gives rise to potential conflicts of interest, but these people are likely in the best "expert" position to run the society. From my understanding, the board members with conflicts in certain scenarios are quite diligent about recusing themselves, as they should be.

Bearing mind that all of the board have been duly elected by the membership, the current board consists of:
Shaheem Ali
Amar Bains
Mathew Bird
Geoff Catliff
John Catliff
Scott Coulter
Mark Gomes
Angelo Pulice
Ruben Tremarco

Perhaps someone can help with clarifying this, but I believe that Shaheem Ali and Amar Bains are with BCT Rovers Hurricanes; Mat Bird is with Coquitlam Metro Ford; Geoff and John Catliff with Westside; Mark Gomes with PCOV. Note sure if Angelo, Ruben or Scott have any club connections.

Other roles with the league are:

Mike Coulter (league Administrator)
Ray King (league Clerk and Discipline Committee Alternate)
Rene Parra (Discipline Committee Member)

There seems to be a focus on potential conflicts for Westside, but I would be interested in hearing more evidence of this. Yes, Westside stood to benefit from Burnaby Metro's mistake (though they did not in the end) but have there been other cases of this? It would have been Mike Coulter (league admin) who identified the extra substitution (that is who the referees send their team sheets etc. to). Westside also had nothing to gain by FASA losing points for the same issue in Premier.

Looks to me like the league is simply enforcing the rules as they are written, objectively across the board. That said, I would be keen to learn of other purported favouritism to Westside. Perhaps there is some smoke here worth investigating....
 

Sunday League Gaffer

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Substitution rules aside (and it appears that there is interest in revising these moving forward) what are you proposing to remedy the perceived issues on the board?

The VMSL is a member funded and run society - it stands to reason that the members with be directly involved with the administration of the society/league. This gives rise to potential conflicts of interest, but these people are likely in the best "expert" position to run the society. From my understanding, the board members with conflicts in certain scenarios are quite diligent about recusing themselves, as they should be.

Bearing mind that all of the board have been duly elected by the membership, the current board consists of:
Shaheem Ali
Amar Bains
Mathew Bird
Geoff Catliff
John Catliff
Scott Coulter
Mark Gomes
Angelo Pulice
Ruben Tremarco

Perhaps someone can help with clarifying this, but I believe that Shaheem Ali and Amar Bains are with BCT Rovers Hurricanes; Mat Bird is with Coquitlam Metro Ford; Geoff and John Catliff with Westside; Mark Gomes with PCOV. Note sure if Angelo, Ruben or Scott have any club connections.

Other roles with the league are:

Mike Coulter (league Administrator)
Ray King (league Clerk and Discipline Committee Alternate)
Rene Parra (Discipline Committee Member)

There seems to be a focus on potential conflicts for Westside, but I would be interested in hearing more evidence of this. Yes, Westside stood to benefit from Burnaby Metro's mistake (though they did not in the end) but have there been other cases of this? It would have been Mike Coulter (league admin) who identified the extra substitution (that is who the referees send their team sheets etc. to). Westside also had nothing to gain by FASA losing points for the same issue in Premier.

Looks to me like the league is simply enforcing the rules as they are written, objectively across the board. That said, I would be keen to learn of other purported favouritism to Westside. Perhaps there is some smoke here worth investigating....
Westside Sierra???
 

Canucks4Ever

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Have you looked at the amount of cards they have?? And how many reds they got this year?? Not to mention a brawl... No big deal look the other way nothing to see here.
Fairly certain they have been heavily fined for their involvement in any discipline incidents. They have also had players handed long suspensions.

Re: the "brawl" I understand there was a video of the incident that the league used to rule that both teams were at fault for causing that match to be abandoned (neither Sierra nor UBC were awarded points from that game).

I would hardly call that "looking the other way". To be clear, you think they should be doing more than following the discipline protocols? What remedy do you feel would be appropriate?

Also, as it pertains to discipline, neither Geoff nor John Catliff (the board members with Westside conflicts) are part of the discipline committee that would be deciding these matters.

There have been other games abandoned this season after incidents (including one it looks like this past week in Division 3 between Temple and Van Olympics) and as far as I can tell they all go through the same review process. There have been plenty of teams over the years with poor discipline records (Harps in their previous iterations come to mind); those involved are suspended and fined as per the league rules.

Again, I am not ruling out some sort of favoritism if people think it exists, but I fail to see how Sierra's discipline record is evidence of inappropriate conduct by the board.
 

Sunday League Gaffer

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So now the league is using video to determine suspensions and not ref reports... Could be slippery slope there. I spoke with the ref at the game and he told me it was disgusting the way Sierra acted. Video can be edited.....
But I am sure you saw the video under freedom information act..
 

Dude

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Wow. Looking at video evidence is a slippery slope? Because people do that? Go to great effort and expense to edit a video to avoid an amateur soccer league suspension?

Right.

Next?
 
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Dude

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And this. We've become a society of snitches I see. Bravo. For the record, I see no issue here in the photo. Physical distancing is allowed, last I checked. There is also some increadibly strong evidence to show this virus does not spread easily outside at all. Alas, we can't throw away the snitches.

Great to see Westside following the email from the VMSL... View attachment 28668
 
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