Div 1 [VMSL Div 1] Predictions, Results & Banter 2019/2020

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big gk

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Any update on the Burnaby UBC game? Likely postponement of the score by someone on purpose. Maybe scores expire and change the result if not reported immediately ? Some great content today
 

Ivanhoe_hound

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Twas a warm eve in August

When the Greencaps first did meet

New faces and new visas

A chance for all to greet



But this year will be different,

Our trusted manager says

We can’t afford suspensions

No yellows or no reds



As we have a reputation

For being too aggressive

And talking shite to referees

At times, it is excessive



“It’s not always our fault though Liam”

One club stalwart replies

“You can’t touch a player these days

Without them dropping like flies”



The season started poorly

We lost 5 on the trot

We did ourselves no favours

By drinking beer a lot


Bank holidays always killed us

We’d play with half a team

Some lads playing hungover

The smell of beer, obscene



Bottom place at Christmas

To most it must look bleak

But not for The Mighty Greencaps

As one pub had belief



They called themselves the Ivanhoe

Located right on Main

They’d welcome us with open arms

Through wind, hail or rain



“You’ll get the points, don’t worry”

The hostess she did shout

“You are The Mighty Greencaps

Survival is no doubt”



To our surprise, the girl was right

2020 started well

We began to climb the table

But in relegation still we dwell



But a faithful night in January

We played a team in Surrey

We scored a pen and won the game

And the Ivanhoe got blurry



A defining moment for the Caps

The lucky break we needed

That night we knew we would survive

And sure enough, succeeded



For we are The Mighty Greencaps

In case you have not heard

Na Capíní Glas will rise again

Next year we will come third



A bonus verse for those still reading

A shout out for two players

3 sheets are clean for Alastair

Alan Kenny has 10 goals and is getting married in May we wish all the best. This verse didn’t rhyme at all did it?
 

dezza

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Twas a warm eve in August

When the Greencaps first did meet

New faces and new visas

A chance for all to greet



But this year will be different,

Our trusted manager says

We can’t afford suspensions

No yellows or no reds



As we have a reputation

For being too aggressive

And talking shite to referees

At times, it is excessive



“It’s not always our fault though Liam”

One club stalwart replies

“You can’t touch a player these days

Without them dropping like flies”



The season started poorly

We lost 5 on the trot

We did ourselves no favours

By drinking beer a lot


Bank holidays always killed us

We’d play with half a team

Some lads playing hungover

The smell of beer, obscene



Bottom place at Christmas

To most it must look bleak

But not for The Mighty Greencaps

As one pub had belief



They called themselves the Ivanhoe

Located right on Main

They’d welcome us with open arms

Through wind, hail or rain



“You’ll get the points, don’t worry”

The hostess she did shout

“You are The Mighty Greencaps

Survival is no doubt”



To our surprise, the girl was right

2020 started well

We began to climb the table

But in relegation still we dwell



But a faithful night in January

We played a team in Surrey

We scored a pen and won the game

And the Ivanhoe got blurry



A defining moment for the Caps

The lucky break we needed

That night we knew we would survive

And sure enough, succeeded



For we are The Mighty Greencaps

In case you have not heard

Na Capíní Glas will rise again

Next year we will come third



A bonus verse for those still reading

A shout out for two players

3 sheets are clean for Alastair

Alan Kenny has 10 goals and is getting married in May we wish all the best. This verse didn’t rhyme at all did it?
 

GoF

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What happens if two teams or more finish the season on 43 points? Is there a tiebreaker or a playoff?

If it was a playoff between Lupi and Metro, because Lupi can't go up would Metro be awarded promotion?
 

dezza

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What happens if two teams or more finish the season on 43 points? Is there a tiebreaker or a playoff?

If it was a playoff between Lupi and Metro, because Lupi can't go up would Metro be awarded promotion?
Promotion/relegation between teams tied on points is always a playoff
 
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FC Red Star

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Promotion/relegation between teams tied on points is always a playoff
That is just one of many VMSL rules that should be changed. A play-off game should be played only if two (or more) teams are tied after every tie-breaker.

In a league competition there has to be a tie-breaker (most importantly goal difference then goals for).

You could certainly add more tie-breakers (i.e. games between tied teams only, number of wins, etc.) but you should never annul all tie-breakers as it is a case in VMSL (basically only number of points count).
 

Sunday League Gaffer

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That is just one of many VMSL rules that should be changed. A play-off game should be played only if two (or more) teams are tied after every tie-breaker.

In a league competition there has to be a tie-breaker (most importantly goal difference then goals for).

You could certainly add more tie-breakers (i.e. games between tied teams only, number of wins, etc.) but you should never annul all tie-breakers as it is a case in VMSL (basically only number of points count).
6.2. In the event of two teams having the same number of points at the end of the league schedule, and providing that this situation affects the promotion or relegation of teams, a one game playoff on a neutral ground shall take place. In case of a tie, two 15 minute extra time periods will be played, followed by penalty kicks if needed. Field and referee costs as well as field set up will be shared by the teams and the CAT system and league suspensions will be in effect.
 

FC Red Star

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Yes, that is the rule dezza mentioned.

Under 5.3 VMSL has a tie-breaker (see below) but it is used only if the Board of Directors feels that there is not sufficient time to complete the round-robin playoff.

There is no need for the Board of Directors to make that decision. Tie-breakers should be used irrelevant of whether the teams are tied for a promotion or relegation. That is what the league competition is for. Only if the teams are still tied after every tie-breaker (a - e) is applied a play-off game should be played.

(a) Total points in games played among tied teams.

(b) Goal difference (goals for minus goals against) in games played among tied teams.

(c) Goal average (goals for divided by goals against) in games played among tied teams.

(d) Average goal difference in all games played.

(e) Goal average in all games played.
 

Canucks4Ever

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Yes, that is the rule dezza mentioned.

Under 5.3 VMSL has a tie-breaker (see below) but it is used only if the Board of Directors feels that there is not sufficient time to complete the round-robin playoff.

There is no need for the Board of Directors to make that decision. Tie-breakers should be used irrelevant of whether the teams are tied for a promotion or relegation. That is what the league competition is for. Only if the teams are still tied after every tie-breaker (a - e) is applied a play-off game should be played.

(a) Total points in games played among tied teams.

(b) Goal difference (goals for minus goals against) in games played among tied teams.

(c) Goal average (goals for divided by goals against) in games played among tied teams.

(d) Average goal difference in all games played.

(e) Goal average in all games played.
You're doing that thing again where you present your opinion as being the most obvious thing in the world and that the league is behaving almost diabolically for not seeing things your way...

As always I will refer you to the fact that rules can be changed annually at the AGM if a majority of the membership feels they should be changed.

Once again you are referring to a rule with which few people have had a problem in the past and one that does not seem to need acute revision. Most people like the playoffs as it give all parties an equal chance to earn the spot on merit at the end of the season. Plenty of reasons to argue that tie-breakers should be used instead, but, again, this is not something that the membership appears currently concerned about.

Then again, it looks like Westside would win based on the tie-breaking formula over both Burnaby Metro and Coquitlam, so given how "biased" the league is towards Westside I am sure they will deem there to be insufficient time for a playoff...:rolleyes:
 

FC Red Star

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Canucks4Ever,

Yes, I'll agree with you that AGM is appropriate place to recommend changes but I also have every right to say here what I think about certain rules.

When it comes to a league competition all I am saying is that a tie-breaker is needed in order to avoid anyone making an administrative decision whether a play-off game can or cannot be played.

Playing a play-off game at the end of a season is, in your opinion, a chance to earn a spot on merit at the end of the season but for me the merit should be a whole season.

One team could have both wins during the season against the main opponent, have much better goal difference, etc. and then play a play-off game against the same team they already beat twice. At least that tie-breaker should be always taken into consideration.
 

Canucks4Ever

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Canucks4Ever,

Yes, I'll agree with you that AGM is appropriate place to recommend changes but I also have every right to say here what I think about certain rules.

When it comes to a league competition all I am saying is that a tie-breaker is needed in order to avoid anyone making an administrative decision whether a play-off game can or cannot be played.

Playing a play-off game at the end of a season is, in your opinion, a chance to earn a spot on merit at the end of the season but for me the merit should be a whole season.

One team could have both wins during the season against the main opponent, have much better goal difference, etc. and then play a play-off game against the same team they already beat twice. At least that tie-breaker should be always taken into consideration.
No issues with you having an opinion and yes TTP is the perfect place for it. Love a good discussion.

Just mentioning that the tone of your "opinions" always seem to imply the league are, for that of a better phrase, total fcuking morons that are so ass backwards as to be beyond incompetent.

I am just saying that while there are plenty of merits to your point (like I said, I am sure Westside in particular would love your proposal), it is still just an OPINION.

The league has been doing things this way for years, so teams know what to expect and should not be caught off guard. That does not by any means make it the best way, but other people have opinions too and, as of right now, there is no major push for change by the membership on a lot of these issues that you present as being almost blindingly stupid.

I am saying that if the membership by and large is not pushing for change, then the system as it currently exists cannot be that bad. It does not at all mean that it is perfect or that there are not better ways to do things. I just do not think everything the league does or does not do is THAT exasperating...

On a side note, while I know you are not "affiliated" with if FC Serbia, but if they wanted to play in Premier I am willing to bet that they could get a spot in the FVSL and would be competitive. Would LOVE to get your thoughts on how that league is run/makes decisions....
 

FC Red Star

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On a side note, while I know you are not "affiliated" with if FC Serbia, but if they wanted to play in Premier I am willing to bet that they could get a spot in the FVSL and would be competitive. Would LOVE to get your thoughts on how that league is run/makes decisions....
This is Division 1 thread yet you find a weird reason to bring Div 2 team into this discussion.

At least this time you didn't "accuse" me that I am trying to "help" somebody (Westside in this case) to earn a promotion without a play-off game so that is quite refreshing.

By the way, any time I mention that some rules could or should be changed you are the one that vehemently defends the league. For the record - I don't think or imply that morons (your words) run the league; I just don't like some rules.

Do you really think that the membership loves all the rules because there are no recommendations for changes? A lot of people just don't bother; it is what it is; it doesn't mean that certain rules can't be better and more effective.
Every change I, kind of, recommended here is meant to, first of all, help VMSL Administration but you simply refuse to see that.
 

penguin

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I’m with Red Star on this one. Seems like a highly subjective rule when there’s a pretty easy way to keep it objective (ie clear cut tiebreakers rather than a “do we feel like playing a playoff” clause) and just because the leagues membership isn’t clamouring for change doesn’t mean it’s a good rule.

While we’re at it, the yellow card accumulation rules are outrageous!
 
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SmartCoach

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As this div 1 thread has gone off topic to rules and regulations
The members overwhelmingly voted to change at last VMSL AGM meeting to have unlimited subs at half time for Div 2 teams
You can make proposals from the floor but it is better to get it on the agenda
The current board of VMSL is excellent
And working hard for the teams and players
I am not on the board
With no conflict of interest
With a independent administrator
Unlike The FVSL
I am not Westside but the rubbish post about
Their team is not true
 
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Canucks4Ever

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This is Division 1 thread yet you find a weird reason to bring Div 2 team into this discussion.

At least this time you didn't "accuse" me that I am trying to "help" somebody (Westside in this case) to earn a promotion without a play-off game so that is quite refreshing.
Let me step up an apologize if I have offended you, because that genuinely was not my intent. I was trying to take the piss out of the way you post your "opinions" on here, but that was only because, to be honest, I feel they come off as disrespectful (an example of an "opinion" of mine).

The league is run by volunteers, who are elected I might add and capable of being replaced any time anyone else wishes to stand and oppose them, and the rules can be changed by any member by putting forward a motion and getting a majority vote (as @SmartCoach noted).

My disdain for your approach to critiquing the league and those who run it is in no way personal, I have an issue with anyone who presents their "opinion" as fact or "proven argument". You have proposed an alternative, which has some merits, but you have done so in a way that makes it seem (again my "opinion") that the league and those who have written the current rules (ie the MEMBERSHIP) are living with their heads in the sand, or up their ass or where ever.

So it is about how you present your argument:

That is just one of many VMSL rules that should be changed. A play-off game should be played only if two (or more) teams are tied after every tie-breaker.

In a league competition there has to be a tie-breaker (most importantly goal difference then goals for).

You could certainly add more tie-breakers (i.e. games between tied teams only, number of wins, etc.) but you should never annul all tie-breakers as it is a case in VMSL (basically only number of points count).


Your choice of words creates a scenario where your are implying that anyone who disagrees with you must be nonsensical. However, you have provided no basis for your claims. "Should be", "has to be"...says who? Just you. Unless you have some other source or evidence to support your claims. Even adding the words "I think..." at the start would temper the language and invite discussion.

I am not a VMSL board member and will happily join you in berating them for being moronic or anything else if and when the evidence and circumstances call for it.

The current rules all exist for a reason, often times they were brought in or modified as direct response for issues that were occurring in the league. The board does not veto rules (ie last season the board was against the proposed unlimited substitution in Division 2 at half time and stated their case as to why, but the membership voted the rule in).

There also seems to be this idea that somehow the league is trying to benefit certain teams through certain rules or something sinister and underhanded like that (not expressly said by you in this discussion). This could not be further from the truth. The league just enforces the rules as they are written at the AGM prior to the start of each season. Those are the rules teams agree to play by when the join the league. If a team does not know what they are until they are on the wrong end of them, then that is the team's fault, not the league's. The rules are readily available online and completely transparent in that respect.

Worth noting that the playoff rule is not on a case by case/subjective basis. There is always a playoff in the VMSL if something is on the line. They happen every season (look under "Playoffs" under the "Cup Play" tab on the VMSL website and you can cycle through them for past seasons). The "unless there is not time" clause is for exceptional circumstances and even then the league would likely exhaust every option for trying to get it played. It is not a discretionary clause that allows them to pick and choose under what circumstances they want these playoffs to take place.

Rules sometimes need to be changed, the VMSL has a fairly good process for doing this and it seems to work. For the record this is what I was getting at when I mentioned Serbia. I wasn't trying to "bring a Div. 2 team into the discussion", but rather to take a thinly veiled shot at the way the FVSL ignores their rules seemingly at will, especially as it pertains to promotion and relegation. Shots at the FVSL usually go over well around here....sometimes you just have to pander to the audience :cool:

Anyway, as I said off the hop, I am not trying to personally attack you and apologize if you felt attacked. You bring up some great points that are worth discussing, I just wish you would do it in a way that invites dialogue as opposed to positioning anyone who might think differently as wrong.
 

Canucks4Ever

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I’m with Red Star on this one. Seems like a highly subjective rule when there’s a pretty easy way to keep it objective (ie clear cut tiebreakers rather than a “do we feel like playing a playoff” clause) and just because the leagues membership isn’t clamouring for change doesn’t mean it’s a good rule.

While we’re at it, the yellow card accumulation rules are outrageous!
Banking on a decent amount of TL;DR I will reproduce a section of the above here re: Playoff Rules

Worth noting that the playoff rule is not on a case by case/subjective basis. There is always a playoff in the VMSL if something is on the line. They happen every season (look under "Playoffs" under the "Cup Play" tab on the VMSL website and you can cycle through them for past seasons). The "unless there is not time" clause is for exceptional circumstances and even then the league would likely exhaust every option for trying to get it played. It is not a discretionary clause that allows them to pick and choose under what circumstances they want these playoffs to take place.

Agree sometimes rules need to change, but you will need at least 50% plus one, clamoring or otherwise, to get it done. If you, or anyone else, wants to champion the cause it would be interesting to see how the membership feels at the AGM.

Yellow cards...now THERE'S an area where you might well have some clamoring. The difficulty being that I am guessing that a decent amount of the VMSL budget comes from those fines and if they are reduced then the league may need to offset that in another area.

Based on last season's vehement opposition by the membership towards registration increases, it might be an interesting argument if those two were the alternatives. Ie everyone pays slightly more registration money and the league changes the yellow card rules OR the current system persists whereby, arguably, the guilty pay the necessary fines, thus keeping costs down across the board. Would be keen to hear both sides of that one!
 
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