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dezza

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NCAA Scholarships vary widely from full ride to partial.

Full scholarships cover tuition and fees, room, board and course-related books.

That right there is the golden ticket, but no doubt it's hard to come by.


One thing that should be pointed out regarding the relative "success" of getting females NCAA Scholarships whether it be through BCSPL or other local academies who like to tout it, is that there are 2 major factors that come in to play:

1) relative lower competition of female soccer players world wide (also part of the reason Canada ranks so high internationally)

2) Title IX combined with USA's love for College Football (the American kind)

Title IX basically says whatever scholarship money is available for male athletes has to be proportionally equal to the money available for female athletes.

Guess what sport is really really popular, is male-only, and has a massive roster? American Football!

So schools end up throwing money at female athletes across a spectrum of sports in order to be able to give more money to their football players. Ergo, more female soccer scholarships are available than men's soccer scholarships.
 

Dude

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Went pretty quick cause I'm actually trying to work today, LOL.

Akron: 17 foreign. Only roster dominated by internationals. Count me surprised.

Syracuse: 11 foreign, surprised on the HUGE number of Ontario / Canadians. That is more than I thought, still half the roster American.

6 foreign on Wake Forest. One Canadian I think? Mostly American.

5 foreign on New Mexico (note, no Mexicans, seems to me that'd be a natural, no? :D )

5 foreign on North Carolina.


Can't remember your original point in all this, but this search alone showed a lot of Ontario presence. I think that was your point?

I suppose, too, different schools will have different policies so far as international scholarships / roster spots. I assume.
 

Dude

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To my point about LOCAL kids...we'd need a way, way bigger sample size than 5 selections of the higher caliber schools to make a real judgement. I don't know exactly how many schools have soccer programs in the US, but my guess would be 500 div 1, 2, 3. Maybe more. I actually did look this up once. My assumption on that is most of these will favor easy scouting, local selections.

I'd LOVE to see stats.
 

dezza

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The point was "local" is not a factor in NCAA Div 1 sports selection. These schools recruit, just not from BC.

If you're looking at Div 2 / Div 3, you might as well stay in Canada. You'll get a better education with the same or possibly better level of footy.
 

Dude

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The point was "local" is not a factor in NCAA Div 1 sports selection. These schools recruit, just not from BC.

If you're looking at Div 2 / Div 3, you might as well stay in Canada. You'll get a better education with the same or possibly better level of footy.

I see your point, but I'd invite you, if you have the time (I don't, so hoping you do) to do a deeper dive than 5 big schools. I think you are wrong when the average is taken into account. Even div. 1 is vast, and my bet would be likely the majority of players are in-state recruits. That's just a bet, and I'm open to being proven wrong. Reality is, I just want to know.

Also, I think the point of not recruiting from BC is pretty obvious, dead horse on that. Again, why would you, when Ontario is right there, and arguably producing better players at the moment.

Totally agree on the div. 2/3/NAIA. USport is pretty good, and we know the schools are both good and affordable.
 

knvb

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Question for you...both your kids are pretty good as I understand it. Mom's & Milkman's genes, obviously.

You get a pretty interesting perspective because, one boy, one girl. What has been the chatter about your son's immediate next steps both in the game and academically (or not?)? I'm sure your daughter is starting to consider her next career move in the game?
I have few opinions that are my own but echoed by anyone who "knows the game" that I have to bite firmly down on my tongue... but to answer part of your question: We've been lucky, the milkmans kid was asked to two schools. One here, one in Kelowna. He's one of I think 6 (maybe 7) from his team. The rest, nada. So to not get one it would be like taking roughly $2500 per year plus the usual $1500ish bucks per for all the pointless Seattle and Portland trips and pressing flush. (aside from all the good friends and memories :rolleyes: )

The scholarships offered to the average local college level player are all relative to the school and the programs budget. From what I've seen (my experience may vary) a good player (first or second year starter) depending on how well the coach manages his funds and recruits would likely cover most of a years course load? Depending on his/her desired career path. Just to use round numbers somewhere like a UFV that would be roughly $3.5 to $4000 range, Trinity being private and more expensive to attend in the $7/9000 range, but it's relative to the cost of school. A stud player, say a late whitecap drop out on a full ride, that would be a couple/few grand more that that? More maybe a Trinity.

Cable guys daughter is now at REX which has its own challenges, logistically and otherwise. School, training 5 days a week, games all in BBY.

Like stated before, go ahead and look in her eyes and say no. It's like @Rangerforever at last call.
 

Dude

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You are lucky. At least you use milk and cable. I have a pool boy's kid; I don't even have a fcuking pool.
 

Dude

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One day you'll lose your virginity, fall in love, have illegitimate children that aren't yours, spend a lifetime paying mysterious pool boy invoices, decide happy wife / happy life is the path of least resistance, and understand.
 

mtkb

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@Rangerforever I can show you a whole team of kids who spurned BCSPL to stay in metro...

2001 Port Moody AC Selects Metro. I believe they even entered the "Premier" Provincial cup competition and beat a couple BCSPL teams.

2 of them were selected to SFU straight out of youth, and a 3rd will join them in the fall

so they shite-kicked the competition a level down all season... must have been great for the individual development of the players...
 

mtkb

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@Dude - the old man does double duty as the current president of Baseball BC... most of what you posted sounds about right to me, though I'll have to ask about someone on the Blaze being on the Brewers payroll... that's interesting... Brett Lawrie did get drafted out of the Blaze by the Brewers... Morneau was the North Delta Blue Jays and Loewen was Whalley Chiefs... that league certainly produces talent, and they play a LOT of baseball...

anyway, the BCSPL clubs do have robust hardship programs, but this misses the point. people vote with their feet and we've no chance of 100% retention or attraction rates for low income families.

when I was chair of the Burnaby Selects, back in the maximum 3 OOD rule days, we had the smallest catchment of players (Guidford alone was bigger), were geographically vulnerable to Burnaby kids bailing (hello CMF), had no paid coaches, no academy, and our kids paid like $600 a year - all in.

our teams were routinely at or near the top of the tables. why? because our attraction and retention rates were relatively high. there are certain pockets of Burnaby with a ton of low income immigrants. Hockey? Not so much. Baseball? Pass. But soccer? That they know AND.. as it happens... are pretty damn good at.

I lost the fight over fees at the inception of the BCSPL. Sometimes you have to realize you're severely outnumbered both internally and externally and live to fight another day.
 

dezza

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so they shite-kicked the competition a level down all season... must have been great for the individual development of the players...

Well they had no way to earn promotion to bcspl as a team, so what option did they have? The local bcspl team (CMF) was actually top in their age group so they couldn't go there on mass and would have had to disperse among other bcspl teams with potentially long commutes and lower quality coaching. Not sure that's great for individual development either.

Their solution actually ended up being playing summer men's soccer where more often than not they got the shite kicked out of them. In the end maybe it balanced out? I know the ones I've seen play in vmsl for Croatia this year are a step ahead of the average bcspl graduate coming the first year out of youth.
 

Dude

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Interesting to have that validation. I could have talked to my guy for hours on it, but I need him out selling to help pay for Dude’s next trip to ride bikes somewhere weird.

Priorities....

I digress. I was amazed at what he told me. I tend to try and look at models that have been successful and see if there are elements that can be copied. The big thing I took away from my conversation with Ty was it is all about the connections, while keeping quality high with laser focus.

I just wish there was path with fewer roadblocks for our elite players. Unfortunately it’s the uphill battle we have being Canadian and still essentially brand new on the professional landscape. I think our game has gone too far on the player costs. I know I’m likely in the minority of those that feel this way, but I do. It’s not for me. I count myself fortunate to be in the income bracket that doesn’t have to worry about the costs for my kids to play sports....but I didn’t come from that as a kid. There is no way my mum would have been able to afford today’s fees, and she’s have been too proud to ask for help. The game when I was a kid meant as much to me as I’m sure all of us on this board. Bad day at school or at home? Take it out on the training pitch or grass on Saturday.

I am concerned because I think we’ve taken another step backwards in BC. Watering it down and requiring more players of lesser ability to come up with more dough. We’ve lost the plot. The business side is winning, and we’re shooting ourselves further in the feet. We’ve added roadblocks (financially and reduction in quality) when we need to be removing them, and increasing the quality.

Is the only way forward for Professional clubs to own these BCPL franchises while retracting clubs? Allow / attract elements of foreign ownership with top level professional connections? To steal the Blaze idea, a scout from Bayern, for example, have partial ownership of a BCPL Club?

I dunno. Spitballing.
 

ThiKu

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Thiku, as a parent and one that played at a descent level I haven’t bought in one bit. However this is the pathway, do a stand firm and no doubt limit my child. As you know bucket loads of parents are doing all the extras now. You feel a need to keep up and give your child the best opportunities.

Personally I rather it be Metro, with Boundaries. Eliminate all this crap with families jumping from club to club. The politics are worse then ever and we’ve lost sight for the kids first mentality. This is about building people. They certainly aren’t developing pro players. Maybe my kid makes it maybe he doesn’t. Maybe next year. But this is his competitive pool for the age group. Build community, friendship. These are local non profit clubs it least mine is and not pro clubs.

It’s a joke. I personally don’t trust the people in charge. TDs are making big big money. And some of the stuff going on can only be described as criminal. Well before BCSPL Rep for 7 year olds? I’m rating 6 year olds am I? Oh and Academy is the expectation for those 7 year olds. That’s the tip of the iceberg with what goes on. I’d take a dad coaching with some knowledge over the stuff I’m seeing.

I don't think you and I are on different pages. My issue with BCSPL are 1) the cost, 2) the myth that there is quality control and a focus on technical & tactical development over winning (in general), 3) scholarship myth. There are loads of reasons to support BCSPL, which I do, overall. But those 3 issues have to be challenged, and parents have to be aware of them. My other issue is that Whitecaps only select from that league - they are limiting their pool, and also saying "you parents have to gamble and spend this money or we won't look at your kid" and that's exceptionally inappropriate as well. BCSA is likely not only complicit in that, but encourages it I am sure.

But, having a top league with 8 teams, and standards? Perfect. Going now to 12....when 1-3 clubs are always struggling as is. Less than ideal. Especially now as this opens the door for the league to grow to 15, and likely more. Which, by the way for anyone who wasn't around, is exactly what happened with metro back in the day. It was a limited league. 6 teams in my day (and it was fantastic weekly competition! amazing coaches, and teams), then 8, then 10, then 12, then....20? It became ridiculous, which is what lead to BCSPL in the first place. What's old is new.
 

ThiKu

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I didn't get that far in my questioning, I will ask him, because it seems to me that baseball would have the same challenges as soccer, meaning many families come from under the 1% demographic.

But yes, I came away with the same conclusion: $4500 is a minuscule investment into pushing the athlete onto a full ride, or even better- National team selection of getting himself drafted into a professional organization. Also seems like you just get more, it's basically a full year of coaching / playing. As he says, the facilities are rough, but they have indoor set-ups where kids can come all winter to hit, or throw, and get professional instruction. "I'll bring you down there man, you'll think it's like Compton compared to those nice pitches you have up in Willoughby!"

In addition it seems like this cost doesn't come into play until about age 16+? I know younger leagues will be expensive, but I assume cheaper than this? I am one person who says BCSPL shouldn't start until u15 or u16.
 

ThiKu

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What you say is true, but still, most Universities will favor the local kids, and I'm sure for optics it's not good to have an uneven balance of "non-American" kids on a team. These programs are all propped up by boosters, after all, and there is a fine balance between winning at all costs and supporting American kids. So, for Canadians it's the same old story of having to be heads and shoulders better to earn that spot, we have always been salmon trying to swim upstream in our sport, which is why I have so much respect for anyone who has played professionally in the era prior to MLS. Even in the MLS era, as we have seen, being Canadian and good does not necessarily guarantee you a spot against some of the internationals brought in.

Yep, I hear ya and agree.
 

ThiKu

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I have few opinions that are my own but echoed by anyone who "knows the game" that I have to bite firmly down on my tongue... but to answer part of your question: We've been lucky, the milkmans kid was asked to two schools. One here, one in Kelowna. He's one of I think 6 (maybe 7) from his team. The rest, nada. So to not get one it would be like taking roughly $2500 per year plus the usual $1500ish bucks per for all the pointless Seattle and Portland trips and pressing flush. (aside from all the good friends and memories :rolleyes: )

The scholarships offered to the average local college level player are all relative to the school and the programs budget. From what I've seen (my experience may vary) a good player (first or second year starter) depending on how well the coach manages his funds and recruits would likely cover most of a years course load? Depending on his/her desired career path. Just to use round numbers somewhere like a UFV that would be roughly $3.5 to $4000 range, Trinity being private and more expensive to attend in the $7/9000 range, but it's relative to the cost of school. A stud player, say a late whitecap drop out on a full ride, that would be a couple/few grand more that that? More maybe a Trinity.


Like stated before, go ahead and look in her eyes and say no. It's like @Rangerforever at last call.

Exactly exactly exactly! Play metro, or div 1, have a great youth career playing with friends and a coach that is there for you, for their kid, for fun. Save the thousands, upwards of $10k you spend on BCSPL, and put it in a university education fund. Go out on dates. Stay up late. Play other sports or activities. Have nights off. Study! And get an education scholarship, get into a good school with the education program you want, and if you are decent walk onto the school team anyway and get a sports scholarship that way, plus you still have that $10k or so, which by the way was probably in a high yield interest account and has grown.

4-5 days a week at BCSPL, to be a sub, to get a tiny scholarship (in the grand scheme) not to mention all the time on the road to and from practice makes zero sense to me - unless you are truly a top player. One that Whitecaps are interested in, one that is a top 1-2 players on HPP - those are the ones with any shot at having an impact beyond BCSPL, and likely getting pro opportunities abroad.

We're following the hockey model, and that makes no sense in the global game of soccer.
 

Dude

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In addition it seems like this cost doesn't come into play until about age 16+? I know younger leagues will be expensive, but I assume cheaper than this? I am one person who says BCSPL shouldn't start until u15 or u16.

Didn't get into details but got the distinct impression the costs were far less in the younger ages. At some point next week I'll ask. I think my guy is president of Langley Baseball (or, was...he's balls deep though), so he knows his stuff. Also want to ask the scholarship question for families that have a hard time coming up w/ the money.
 

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