TSS commencing an action against the BCSA

FC Red Star

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And back to that league pillar thing: UBC is hosting an ID camp for 2003 boys this weekend. You’d think that every single player in BCSPL would be notified. Nope. You’d think my son’s club (Fusion) would notify their 2003 boys team. Nope. I mean what the actual f*ck?
Maybe UBC already picked the players (before try-outs) which is OK if UBC has a good scouting system in place.
It would not be the first time that try-outs are being organized just as a formality to satisfy some requirements and collect some money through try-out registrations. If that indeed is the case then attending such try-outs would be a total waste of time (and money).
 

bandcamp

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1) It’s no secret that UBC mostly looks at Whitecaps players.

2) Fusion is not a club that UBC normally takes seriously.

3) That said, the best university soccer program in the province is holding an ID camp and neither league nor club notified its stakeholders. When your league’s mission is to place their athletes into university soccer programs this is straight up negligence.
 

Canucks4Ever

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1) It’s no secret that UBC mostly looks at Whitecaps players.

2) Fusion is not a club that UBC normally takes seriously.

3) That said, the best university soccer program in the province is holding an ID camp and neither league nor club notified its stakeholders. When your league’s mission is to place their athletes into university soccer programs this is straight up negligence.
Is it an open tryout? Or is it by invite only?

I know Mosher does not put much stock into recruiting local HPL/youth players...
 

bandcamp

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Open. And I’m familiar w him not putting much stock in HPL players but that’s not the point at all. I’ve stated above what I think and it has zero to do with how schools prefer to recruit. I’m looking at BCHPL and Fusion.

Example: we know BCSPL didn’t notify the players. Did other clubs? I know Fusion didn‘t but what about Surrey United or CMF?
 
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Dude

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Maybe UBC already picked the players (before try-outs) which is OK if UBC has a good scouting system in place.
It would not be the first time that try-outs are being organized just as a formality to satisfy some requirements and collect some money through try-out registrations. If that indeed is the case then attending such try-outs would be a total waste of time (and money).
Not true.

Experience is good for any player, #1.

Secondly, there is always a chance of a walk-on impressing. Can’t take that away from the players.
 

Rangerforever

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When my kid went (5 years ago) it was specific invite only and Mosher contacted the coaches about players he was keen on, not the Clubs.

I do see your point though BC.

Did TSS get invites? :)
(That was for the Moderator)
 

Canucks4Ever

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Not true, look at UBC roster for last 5 or 6 years, totally dominated by HPL players.
That came out of U18 HPL? Which players are you referring to?

Case in point his top first year recruit this season, Sebastian Dzikowski, is from Alberta. The only 1st year player on this season's roster who lists a BCSPL team as their previous club is Sam Aiello (Mountain United) and from my understanding he has played most of the season with "Richmond" (aka UBC reserves) in the VMSL.

Some of the older fourth and fifth year guys may have come out of BCSPL back when it was first getting started (Einarsson, Pannu, Bains) and I am sure almost all of the BC based players would have played HPL at some point (ie U13, U14, etc.). However, the number of kids going to UBC Men's soccer straight out of HPL is almost non-existent.

On the women's side it is much higher. In fact there are only seven or eight non-HPL based players on that roster. In my limited and infrequent conversations with Mosher he has expressly told me that BCHPL is just not up to the standard he is looking for with the UBC program, hence why he continues to look to other sources for recruitment.

My guess about why HPL clubs did not tell their players UBC was holding a tryout was because UBC likely made no effort to tell them to begin with...
 
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KS9

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That came out of U18 HPL? Which players are you referring to?

Case in point his top first year recruit this season, Sebastian Dzikowski, is from Alberta. The only 1st year player on this season's roster who lists a BCSPL team as their previous club is Sam Aiello (Mountain United) and from my understanding he has played most of the season with "Richmond" (aka UBC reserves) in the VMSL.

Some of the older fourth and fifth year guys may have come out of BCSPL back when it was first getting started (Einarsson, Pannu, Bains) and I am sure almost all of the BC based players would have played HPL at some point (ie U13, U14, etc.). However, the number of kids going to UBC Men's soccer straight out of HPL is almost non-existent.

On the women's side it is much higher. In fact there are only seven or eight non-HPL based players on that roster. In my limited and infrequent conversations with Mosher he has expressly told me that BCHPL is just not up to the standard he is looking for with the UBC program, hence why he continues to look to other sources for recruitment.

My guess about why HPL clubs did not tell their players UBC was holding a tryout was because UBC likely made no effort to tell them to begin with...
I have quickly looked through the UBC roster and counted HPL U18 graduated players.

UBC Roster Year Number of players who played HPL U18
2013-2014 4
2014-2015 7
2015-2016 12
2016-2017 17
2017-2018 13
2018-2019 9
2019-2020 7
 

Canucks4Ever

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I have quickly looked through the UBC roster and counted HPL U18 graduated players.

UBC Roster Year Number of players who played HPL U18
2013-2014 4
2014-2015 7
2015-2016 12
2016-2017 17
2017-2018 13
2018-2019 9
2019-2020 7
That's a great example to illustrate the decline in HPL recruitment at UBC in recent years.

Further, how many of the 7 you have listed on this year's count are either first or second year players?
 

KS9

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That's a great example to illustrate the decline in HPL recruitment at UBC in recent years.

Further, how many of the 7 you have listed on this year's count are either first or second year players?
You are hard working poster here but on this issue you are being so lazy. By the way you are doing a great job in weekly writeups about local soccer.
 

mtkb

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CMF was the last club to benefit from free fields from their municipality. That may have changed, but when I was with MUFC that was the case. The North Shore was pretty good, but Burnaby was a nightmare ("oh no, we need that 7pm Thursday turf slot in February so 6 kids from our Bronze 3 team can show up and use the field") to get time from. Our annual field bill was a round $60,000. That hurts.

TOFC and the Island have much greater travel costs than the rest of us, even with scheduling accommodations. If you want to play against CMF and Fusion instead of Lakehill and Gorge FC, well, the travel is going to cost you...
 

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I should clarify - Cliff Ave. - the only Burnaby club I've never been involved with - gets it. They were good about trying to find us field time when we were in a pickle. The others? Not so much...
 

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That's a great example to illustrate the decline in HPL recruitment at UBC in recent years.

Further, how many of the 7 you have listed on this year's count are either first or second year players?
You can categorize this as a downturn in HPL productivity, however not one person has pointed out the fact that the Whitecaps are handing over a few ex residency players every year to play for UBC.

Why would Mosher need to dip deep into the BCSPL pool when he has the luxury of having Caps players who don’t want to go the NCAA route come to him.

Farmer,Haynes,Fussel, Shambusho are a few that have come to him in the last couple of years. I think that’s a bigger factor than Mosher doesn’t think bcspl is up to his standard. My standard would be different if I had the ex professional player who is 25 standard..
 

Canucks4Ever

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You are hard working poster here but on this issue you are being so lazy. By the way you are doing a great job in weekly writeups about local soccer.
God forbid somebody else do some research around here...

Ok deep dive it is.

Since you wouldn't name names I decided to stop being "lazy" and figure it out myself and my position remains unchanged.

With the exception of two fifth year players that I could find no info on, here is where everybody on UBC's current roster came from:

Jason Roberts – Unknown (Richmond)
Daniel Kaiser – Whitecaps
Jordan Haynes – Whitecaps
Sam Aiello – Mountain United (HPL)
Jackson Farmer – Whitecaps
Manraj Bains – Whitecaps
Mihai Hodut – Mountain United (HPL)
Ryan Arthur – Kwantlen Polytechnic (Transfer – Originally from Fusion FC HPL)
Victory Shumbusho – Whitecaps
Sean Einarsson – Whitecaps
Mackenzie Cole – Vancouver Island Wave (HPL)
Chris Fisher – Upper Island Riptide (non-HPL)
Kerman Pannu – Surrey United (HPL)
Logan Chung – Whitecaps
Sam Fletcher – Vancouver Island Wave (HPL)
Sebastian Dzikowski – Calgary Foothills
Riley Pang – Whitecaps
Mateo Donelly – Fusion FC (HPL)
Dallin Akune – Fusion FC (HPL)
James Graham – Winnipeg
Andrew Metcalfe – Seattle University (Transfer – Originally from Winnipeg)
Mitch Piraux – Whitecaps
Jora Saran – Surrey United (HPL)
Nick Fussell – Whitecaps
Thomas Gardner – Whitecaps
Rhett Freiter – Calgary Foothills
Luke Griffin – Unkown (Coquitlam)
Chad Bush – Duke University (Transfer – Originally from Ottawa)
Tariq Gareau - Oakville
Stefan Colbow – Mountain United (HPL 2017)

So on a 30 man roster there are 11 from the Whitecaps (residency, U23, USL, etc.) and 6 from other parts of Canada, plus 1 from a non-HPL youth club and 1 from another local University.

That leaves 8 straight out of HPL by my count.

9 if you count Colbow but he appears to have taken a year off before returning to school in which he played men's league for NorVan and, according to sources, he left the UBC program when he was told he would have to play for "Richmond" in Div. 1 with the rest of the reserves.

The two 5th year unknowns (Griffin and Roberts) I assume likely played HPL, but the league would have been in its infancy back then (launched in spring 2012 they would have graduated 2014 at the latest) so it is tough to say for certain as the landscape was different.


UBC lists 10 1st year players on their roster:

Aiello (HPL)
Fisher (non-HPL)
Chung (Whitecaps)
Dzikowski (Foothills)
Donelly (HPL)
Graham (Winnipeg)
Metcalf (Transfer/Winnipeg)
Frieter (Foothills)
Gareau (Ontario)
Colbow (N/A)

Only 2 from HPL (Aiello and Donelly). Neither dressed for a single game this season. As mentioned, I don't think Colbow is with the team, but regardless, he too did not dress for a single game this season.

So the ONLY two players that joined UBC from HPL last season (or three if you include Colbow) spent the entire season as red-shirts.

Maybe the kids will go on to have great UBC careers, but I think it is more likely that they bail on the program.

For the record the two Foothills products (Dzikowski and Frieter) were also complete red-shirts that didn't see the field. Fisher, Graham and Gareau got to play in the last game of the regular season plus got a trip to Nationals. Metcalf, GK, got the start in one regular season game against Victoria as well as in the loser game at Nationals. Chung, the Whitecaps Residency product, was a regular.

Those are the facts. Call it what you want, but I see it as a downturn in HPL recruiting. Again, all I can go off is what Mosher told me personally a couple years back which is that the local U18s were not able to cut it at his level. Take that for what it is worth.

Perhaps part of the motivation of having a VMSL team try and create more opportunity for local U18s to get experience with UBC and ultimately crack the roster. This has been mooted as one of the reasons that team perhaps would want to stay in Division 1 rather than go up to Premier, as it is a development squad.

Circling all the way back around to why did nobody at Fusion, etc. know about this tryout at UBC. Likely because if Mosher is only going to take enough HPL kids that you can count on one hand, he probably already has an idea who they are.

Does the fact that UBC is not taking a vast quantity of players from HPL (on the Men's side) make that league less valuable? That question is up for debate.

As we were then...
 
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ThiKu

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Maybe UBC already picked the players (before try-outs) which is OK if UBC has a good scouting system in place.
It would not be the first time that try-outs are being organized just as a formality to satisfy some requirements and collect some money through try-out registrations. If that indeed is the case then attending such try-outs would be a total waste of time (and money).
And, hugely unethical for UBC to run them.
 

ThiKu

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1) It’s no secret that UBC mostly looks at Whitecaps players.

2) Fusion is not a club that UBC normally takes seriously.

3) That said, the best university soccer program in the province is holding an ID camp and neither league nor club notified its stakeholders. When your league’s mission is to place their athletes into university soccer programs this is straight up negligence.
Also, UBC has already made it known to various stakeholders that they don't want BCSPL players because they aren't good enough.
 

ThiKu

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Not true, look at UBC roster for last 5 or 6 years, totally dominated by HPL players.
"totally dominated"? Uh, have a look at their current roster. 4 players listed from BCSPL clubs. The rest of the BC players are signed from Whitecaps and men's senior teams.


ps-our best u17-18 (and some u16) should no longer be in BCSPL, they should be playing men's soccer, be that Div 1, Premier, PCSL, USL2.
 
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