Surrey Soccer Yearly ClusterFcuk

[Michael]

Out of curiosity how are your districts managing in these strange times of covid cohort boundaries? Are your clubs only playing within your own club? Within the defined geographic sectors? Are you guys playing non-profit and private academies?

I'm trying to follow the convo and points raised by robino but it seems contradictory. On the one side I agree, there should be relatively cost efficient programs for kids to play sports. I do believe these are provided in district house leagues.

He also brings up some pain points, where clearly skilled / motivated / (whatever you want to call kids that don't count grass) seem to run into a pay to play model in order to get more. More time with 'qualified' coaches, more time on the pitch, more games and tournaments etc. Do you guys think having an SPL designation help clubs provide the value for the fees they (want to) charge? As opposed to clubs that don't have this designation and yet still charge an amount that's almost the same for Metro level teams?

What about private academies that seem to take out the guesswork and provide a consistent level of coaching?

~Just a dad of a U11 player navigating the sea of youth soccer.

 

[robino]

Many good questions. Private academies are good but mainly because majority of players are engaged and want to improve. Game is usually faster and players are much more focused. They like to train, listen well and want play. There is no BS like in ‘house club’ training (ex, mikey you gotta run, 3 or 4 players would rather play tag than soccer and so on) Coaching in Academies can vary from one coach to another. Probably best to check it out and see if your kid likes it. Quality of soccer is better!
Because majority of clubs keep players of all abilities together until u11,u12 I believe TDs need to get better players and train with them as early as U8. This should be free (not extra pay) since TDs are already making a decent salary with the club. They are not doing extra work but rather working for the club in improving the players and setting them up for success no matter what path players choose to take. Expectations of TDs need to increase. As I said too many are not involved and basically observe from far. They give advices to coaches who have no clue what they are doing and are volunteering since no one else is available. This is good, but to make it better they need to get involved. Roll up their sleeves and get to work by actually coaching and challenging players. Every year it is same thing - status quo and the needle is not being pushed upward. I see kids at u10 still do not know how to make a proper pass after already playing for three-four years!?!? And then the players who are way advanced are expected to play with them!?!? It makes no sense to me at least.

 

[Regs]

Everything else aside, the TDs that I know and have spoke to in the past do way more than stand around from 5-9pm. Of course there are going to be some bad apples out there but for the most part, I think the picture you are painting is on the unfair side.

 

[Dude]

Everything else aside, the TDs that I know and have spoke to in the past do way more than stand around from 5-9pm. Of course there are going to be some bad apples out there but for the most part, I think the picture you are painting is on the unfair side.

Varies from Club-to-club. I only have recent experience w/ two. Surrey United, Whistler FC. Both on opposite sides of the spectrum and size.

Surry United is the "model" club in BC, but everything you can imagine is player pay. They would typically have one extra session my academy staff per team per year, and it was sort of a loss leader, get coaches interested, then later pay for sessions run by the club coach. This was the case for all squads that were not HPL. If you were div 1 down to 3, it was on you the coach to somehow get a second training day a week, and come up with money for that club coach. My second session was always a 4:00 time on a weird day like Friday, as those were the only ones they were willing to give up. I already spoke of my experience on the club coaches above; needless to say, hit and miss. Surrey United is very "corporate" in feel. A lot of great people, almost no shitty people, actually, but it's sterile. I did not appreciate how I constantly had to advocate hard on behalf of getting my players a better training environment that I felt all players deserved. I did find w/ my particular group focus was very good, but it was because I hammered that into them from a young age. When they showed up to training, they knew what was expected of them, and from that standpoint that is really our job as a head coach, to set up a good training environment. If you allow the sessions to devolve, or certain players to bring down quality, that falls on the head coach. Setting up the right atmosphere and expectations is not that hard.

In Whistler, it's first a different environment, and secondly, small enough that Club TD Mark Freeman can have a personal connection with every kid. Huge difference. My daughter played in Div 1A. We did have 18 on the roster, but rarely had more than 11 or 12 at any given match, and drew players regularly from the lower TWO age groups. Those players would fit in. Why? It was all attitude. We would constantly be short and have huge turnover in availability because for most players, Soccer was their second sport they did for fun. Most did some weird Winter sport, or cycling, at an elite level, and were training in a Provincial or National program. We had, literally, two girls that COULD NOT PLAY because they were literally on Olympic teams. One was an alternate for the Canada Luge team, the other the Hong Kong representative in DH Skiing. Point being, these girls came to training with the attitude that it was time to train and perform at a high level. In matches, there was never a sag in attitude, they'd just get more intense when down a goal or tied. They expected to win, every time, no matter who they played. In terms of following instructions, especially in a match, if I gave them a different tactic during a match, they'd pick it up first time. Even though, technically, these players were mostly no different than the players I had in surrey, they all had an elite mindset. So, back to Mark, he was able to run special sessions all the time, he knew when players showed, they were there to improve and work hard. He'd mix in the higher quality girls with boys. He pushes on a disproportionate amount of players into the city to play Metro or BCPL, it's pretty impressive.

I know what I preferred, but spiritually, I felt I got more out of the Surrey situation, because I had to do most of it myself, and overcome more barriers put in place by the club. I felt the players really needed me, otherwise they would not have gotten the level of instruction they did. Whistler, because it was smaller, more nimble, and I had a direct friendship with the TD, there were no barriers. Plus, they didn't really need me.

Not all clubs can be run like Whistler, but none- I feel- should be as corporately sterile as Surrey either.

 

[Regs]

TD Series: Mark Rogers

Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I'm currently the Tsawwassen Soccer Club Technical Director. I do some local soccer media work for TSN...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

TD Series: Paul Bahia

Paul, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I am 32 years old, born in raised in the Lower mainland. I am married with an 18 month boy, and have...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

TD Series: Ciaran McMahon

Ciaran, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I am the current technical director for the Kamloops Youth Soccer Association. We provide soccer...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

TD Series: Mark McQueen

Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I left Scotland in 2000 and came to British Columbia with my wife. We settled in White Rock and lived just...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

 

[Dude]

TD Series: Mark Rogers

Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I'm currently the Tsawwassen Soccer Club Technical Director. I do some local soccer media work for TSN...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

TD Series: Paul Bahia

Paul, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I am 32 years old, born in raised in the Lower mainland. I am married with an 18 month boy, and have...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

TD Series: Ciaran McMahon

Ciaran, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I am the current technical director for the Kamloops Youth Soccer Association. We provide soccer...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

TD Series: Mark McQueen

Mark, thank you so much for taking the time to allow us to conduct this interview – to start, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I left Scotland in 2000 and came to British Columbia with my wife. We settled in White Rock and lived just...

www.bcsoccercentral.com

Yes, I remember this. It was really good. I also remember certain TDs declined to be involved.

 

[bulljive]

Dude, nail on the head with the environment. As a new coach to kids(year 3), I’m admittedly learning everyday. Fully agree with Robinho, academy is a much better player environment for improving. Kids are focused and their to learn. Mostly kids that are ready for extras(and the parents that can afford it, mostly union workers I find. A joke leave my Peleton alone.

My kids are only 7 but playing development. 2-3 really are just he-haw and the fcuk around gang. Kids, 7 that want to play tag and were placed in development. I’ve struggled with the implementation that yes we are here to have fun of course but we are here to be focused and improve. Last 15-20 I’ll let them just play.

It can be very difficult at a club level with youngsters. I feel for the top 4-5 who with thrive with a constant push with fun stuff intermixed. But those 2-3 destroy everything that involves being any form of focus. Always struggle with the balance of improvement and focus and letting the fun take hold and not really worry about keeping them on task.

 

[robino]

Yes, too many hoops to jump through as a coach and always having to beg for field time or for extra sessions. This is the BS I am talking about. I remember one time, I wanted to train one more day in a week, and even though the field was available the club refused to allow it. Something about other teams not having same time. Again, academies in each club should be FREE. They are non profit soccer clubs thus why are you charging extra for this?!?! TDs are already paid, thus work. Offer your knowledge to kids this once a week. As for TDs they also have hands in too many jars. They are a TD but also have something on a side, again personal coaching. Or they are coaching somewhere else. Know any like that? Cannot possible be everywhere. In lots of those club academies coaching can be sub par, having young 20yr olds coaches who spend time more juggling the ball then actually looking at the players.
Thus even though it is costly, looking back I would go for private academies. Ex) Faly, TSS and others that fit to your kid. They will get mostly out of your kid and put them in challenging environments.

 

[bulljive]

I just looked up TSS prices. $540 for 10 sessions. How do we expect players from BC to make it at the top level when this is the ask. $54 dollars a session in a group environment, for kids? I’ll take my kid being coached by a 20 year old at club academy thanks.

 

[Dude]

You’ve both described the problem. How are we as a footballing nation supposed the get ahead when at the grass roots level we are pricing parents out of the market? i Paid less for my son to be involved in an elite cycling program between 13-17. $1200 / year, access to training with professional coaches 4-5 days a week in season, 2 days a week in off season. Programs written by the coach that kids follow. Yes equipment obviously extra and a big cost, but it’s fcuking Cycling! Soccer is supposed to be accessible for everyone, and from the beginning we’ve made it so only the wealthy can gain access to elite level training. It‘s stupid.

 

[Michael]

Thanks Robino. I 100% agree with your last point. I saw/see the same issue at our old club. Why are motivated kids held back (almost penalized)? The club we were at had a 'development' program but the $ they wanted to charge for non-certified volunteer coaching is laughable. TD was not involved and was just executed horribly save for the sheer will of the parents who volunteered because their own kid was in that 'development' group. I agree with your sentiments, a good academy that my child feels comfortable in and is receptive to learning is probably best value for the $.

Dude's point about being price prohibitive for a sport (soccer), tbh I can't think of 1 sport in the lower mainland where if a child wants to excel in one wouldn't need to put forth $ for quality coaching / nutrition / physio - kinetics. This is ontop of the cost of equipment. - how much more, that's a different question.

Rightly or wrongly, I juxtapose sports against academics and education. I can't reasonably expect my child to excel in school unless I put as much effort as I can, plus any additional tutors or seasonal programs that would expand my kid's mind. The idea of if they're a good player they'll excel no matter where they play isn't true save for the prodigies.... not unlike academia.

For some reason the old commercial tagline - 'for everyone else their's Mastercard' seems apt.

Many good questions. Private academies are good but mainly because majority of players are engaged and want to improve. Game is usually faster and players are much more focused. They like to train, listen well and want play. There is no BS like in ‘house club’ training (ex, mikey you gotta run, 3 or 4 players would rather play tag than soccer and so on) Coaching in Academies can vary from one coach to another. Probably best to check it out and see if your kid likes it. Quality of soccer is better!
Because majority of clubs keep players of all abilities together until u11,u12 I believe TDs need to get better players and train with them as early as U8. This should be free (not extra pay) since TDs are already making a decent salary with the club. They are not doing extra work but rather working for the club in improving the players and setting them up for success no matter what path players choose to take. Expectations of TDs need to increase. As I said too many are not involved and basically observe from far. They give advices to coaches who have no clue what they are doing and are volunteering since no one else is available. This is good, but to make it better they need to get involved. Roll up their sleeves and get to work by actually coaching and challenging players. Every year it is same thing - status quo and the needle is not being pushed upward. I see kids at u10 still do not know how to make a proper pass after already playing for three-four years!?!? And then the players who are way advanced are expected to play with them!?!? It makes no sense to me at least.

 

[Dude]

Thanks Robino. I 100% agree with your last point. I saw/see the same issue at our old club. Why are motivated kids held back (almost penalized)? The club we were at had a 'development' program but the $ they wanted to charge for non-certified volunteer coaching is laughable. TD was not involved and was just executed horribly save for the sheer will of the parents who volunteered because their own kid was in that 'development' group. I agree with your sentiments, a good academy that my child feels comfortable in and is receptive to learning is probably best value for the $.

Dude's point about being price prohibitive for a sport (soccer), tbh I can't think of 1 sport in the lower mainland where if a child wants to excel in one wouldn't need to put forth $ for quality coaching / nutrition / physio - kinetics. This is ontop of the cost of equipment. - how much more, that's a different question.

Rightly or wrongly, I juxtapose sports against academics and education. I can't reasonably expect my child to excel in school unless I put as much effort as I can, plus any additional tutors or seasonal programs that would expand my kid's mind. The idea of if they're a good player they'll excel no matter where they play isn't true save for the prodigies.... not unlike academia.

For some reason the old commercial tagline - 'for everyone else their's Mastercard' seems apt.

This is true, and speaks to the problem. I guess the topic expanded beyond just your child. For you and any other parent with talented kids, this is good for you...it means they'll face less competition on the way up the ladder. I'll argue it's bad for our game, and that's what I care more about, the game. I want your kid to have to compete against all those poor kids from Surrey to win his/her spot; 1st or 2nd generation Canadian kids who have the game coursing through their veins, and WANT to play at a high level but our cost-to-play model has blocked them. Those are the kids that populated our only World Cup team, kids from East Van and other 1st and 2nd generation Canadians that could fcuking play the game, were poor as dirt, but were identified anyways.

Bigger, more holistic conversation.

 

[Michael]

To be clear, I'm not condoning less competition nor is that a reason I think to join an academy program. My points are around getting better program quality.

Would love to be a fly on the wall for the more holistic conversation.

 

[Dude]

Yeah, completely understood. As you’ll learn, conversations tend to squirrel here on TTP.

 

[Bigbadsoccerwolf]

I just looked up TSS prices. $540 for 10 sessions. How do we expect players from BC to make it at the top level when this is the ask. $54 dollars a session in a group environment, for kids? I’ll take my kid being coached by a 20 year old at club academy thanks.

Shocking prices to be coached by imposters. All these years they slammed local soccer scene especially HPL. They low and behold once clubs can apply to join they are first ones throwing their hat in the ring. The kids that sign up to go there 75% of them go as they fell out with their old club, disgruntled annoying parents, or the kid failed to play at hpl so now the family says they “prefer” the academy feel.
I don’t see too many TSA boys signing with local universities? Girls yes but that’s a discussion for another day/thread.
Elmes/Quarry? More like Harry and Lloyd
Throw that Cromack buddy in there as well, guy finished bottom of PDL with the best university players and local talent

 

[PV]

I just looked up TSS prices. $540 for 10 sessions. How do we expect players from BC to make it at the top level when this is the ask. $54 dollars a session in a group environment, for kids? I’ll take my kid being coached by a 20 year old at club academy thanks.

Tss has to charge more to pay for its building and the land.

 

[dezza]

Tss has to charge more to pay for its building and the land.

Actually tss made money selling their building/land.

They are renting their space now, but recoup some of that cost renting out to other groups and running adult leagues there

 

[Bigbadsoccerwolf]

Shocking prices to be coached by imposters. All these years they slammed local soccer scene especially HPL. They low and behold once clubs can apply to join they are first ones throwing their hat in the ring. The kids that sign up to go there 75% of them go as they fell out with their old club, disgruntled annoying parents, or the kid failed to play at hpl so now the family says they “prefer” the academy feel.
I don’t see too many TSA boys signing with local universities? Girls yes but that’s a discussion for another day/thread.
Elmes/Quarry? More like Harry and Lloyd
Throw that Cromack buddy in there as well, guy finished bottom of PDL with the best university players and local talent

I feel like the ugly girl at prom that no one wants to dance with.
Or we have a lot of TSS lovers in the house.
Maybe we should ask Mr.Elmes about him hiring Mr.Birarda. They won’t comment as they are too busy promoting masks on social media

 

[Dude]

RANT ALERT

I am SICK of the argument that, "Well, other sports costs a lot of money too, what's the big deal?"

Firstly, look closely at the elite baseball level, they are doing way, way more in BC with way less costs. When you have a program like Langley Blaze that have close to 100% of their players going on to professional / university / National programs after graduation, and doing it for a lot less costs to parents, questions need to be asked.

Secondly, I DON'T GIVE A FCUK ABOUT OTHER SPORTS! I care about football! I want our players to gain professional opportunities, and our National teams to be in contention for Olympics / World Cups. Full stop.

I point to a time where we were on the right path, and my generation of players (born 65-80 ish) didn't need to have low income parents take on a second job to afford the programs. The programs found the good players, and made it easy to develop them further. If you were good, you moved up. No glass ceilings, no barriers, no coaches blocking the way to "keep a group together". If you were in C, and dominating, you moved up to B. Dominate B, move into A. Dominate A, you get a try-out to Metro. Win the try-out, and some kid would get dropped to A.

In Coquitlam, that was commonplace. Hungry players worked to overcome deficiencies so they could fight for that promotion up the ladder. Nobody had to tell us to go get 2,000 touches in the backyard every day. We walked to school w/ the ball in a net and practiced juggling the whole way.

Our generation produced some really good players. Too bad the professional pathway fell apart. But, I guarantee you, a @Regs (and so many guys, really, a bunch) would have been an MLS player if there were a pathway when he was young. That's all for compliments, Merry Christmas.

Now? We don't even give ourselves a chance at identifying all the best players and creating that competition. We have a pathway, great, now we've killed the funnel.

You want your kid to be the top player? Fantastic, hope he understands that if he's really good, his path will be easy, and he won't get the true competition he needs to excel.

Rant over.

 

[Regs]

Maybe we should ask Mr.Elmes about him hiring Mr.Birarda

To be fair, I think Birada was an owner when they all first started the Sportstown/TSS venture?