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Premier RUMOUR: Surrey Utd. to FVSL
- Thread starter Canucks4Ever
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Bit of a small sample size. Surrey United has some strong players on paper, in the premier division anyway. Coastal still looks the shits, I've heard a lot of people talk about their youth program being very well run and strong. I don't understand how that doesn't transfer to the men's program. Where are all these strong players going?
The real answer is elsewhere.
Weather to the VMSL or another FVSL club.
The cradle-to-grave system in most clubs is terrible, and old farts like us that hang on too long, protecting our spots don't help.
Managers should be graduating / cutting 2-3 spots per year, assuming the tallent is there to bring in...but most don't have the balls or the motivation to cut their friends. Which is, at the end of the day, understandable.
Weather to the VMSL or another FVSL club.
The cradle-to-grave system in most clubs is terrible, and old farts like us that hang on too long, protecting our spots don't help.
Managers should be graduating / cutting 2-3 spots per year, assuming the tallent is there to bring in...but most don't have the balls or the motivation to cut their friends. Which is, at the end of the day, understandable.
It's also very tough for the club to retain any players when a vast majority of kids go away for schoolInteresting topic and not wanting to debate youth soccer on here but as it pertains to senior men's soccer, there are 8 HPL clubs in the province. My son plays on the Fusion team and there is no senior men's club to graduate to. SU, Metro Ford, Coastal, Langley have men's programs and the other four do not as far as I can tell. Are the first 4 clubs doing a good job moving kids up to the A team and what are the other 4 clubs doing with their graduating players? Many players from this league move to uni soccer for sure, some local and some go away,
Interesting...
The pedigree of players being graduated out of the BCPL (boys side) should suggest that there should be a spot for every player "leftover" that doesn't move onto uni or something like the Caps Residency. You would think that most clubs would make room. I mean, how many players are we talking, here? Even on your son's team, 6-10 players? Even if it's 40 players in the league looking for a spot in a Men's Premier Team, that still leaves 16 or so squads that should be cutting 2-3 weaker players / off-season to make way for the youth.
Again, as players, we fiercely protect our spots...totally get that. Sometimes we have to be pushed out.
The pedigree of players being graduated out of the BCPL (boys side) should suggest that there should be a spot for every player "leftover" that doesn't move onto uni or something like the Caps Residency. You would think that most clubs would make room. I mean, how many players are we talking, here? Even on your son's team, 6-10 players? Even if it's 40 players in the league looking for a spot in a Men's Premier Team, that still leaves 16 or so squads that should be cutting 2-3 weaker players / off-season to make way for the youth.
Again, as players, we fiercely protect our spots...totally get that. Sometimes we have to be pushed out.
Canucks4Ever
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #128
Well, as stated, Coastal may have a men's program but they don't exactly funnel their HPL talent into it. In any of my years of involvement out there I cannot remember a significant amount of HPL players getting any sort of serious stint with the Open "A" team. From what I can see Metro Ford would be the bench mark for graduating guys into adult football, not to mention the loyalty these kids to that club. Can't comment on Langley or SU.
As for Fusion (and the rest of the HPL clubs for that matter), in order to qualify for an HPL franchise in your application you must show how you will provide "cradle to grave" footballing opportunities for the players you develop. In Fusion's case their solution was to partner with Westside FC, a relationship, that as I understand it, is in name only. From what I know of the situation, it is not from a lack of trying on Westside's part, Fusion just has no interest in having their players play adult amateur soccer.
As far as I know organizations like Coastal and Fusion have a mandate to get all there graduating players scholarship opportunities at post secondary and basically flood the PacWest (Langara, Douglas, Quest, Cap, etc.) with anyone who doesn't make CIS. From that point it's essentially job done and ties cut.
I guess from an optics perspective working to get the kids onto CIS/Pacwest teams is better than saying "hey thanks for spending $25K on our program the last 5 years, we'll now direct you to the local amateur (beer league) club"
Although, you'd think if the youth league was truly "high performance" some more guys would get NCAA Div 1 scholarships...
Although, you'd think if the youth league was truly "high performance" some more guys would get NCAA Div 1 scholarships...
Yes, a very high percentage of BC kids going to play NCAA D1 come from the Whitecaps Residency. My point is that they are too few in number.
The kids getting NCAA scholarships are on the Whitecaps. Haven't heard of any BCSPL kids getting any kind of NCAA scholarship on the boys side (I think some girls have?). Happy to be proven wrong though. My point is - why spend so much on BCSPL to get a relatively measly scholarship in CIS (you can get more for an educational scholarship) - you can get the same by going through MSL and walking-on at a uni trial.
SmartCoach
Well-Known Member
My wife said I am child
It's getting close to that "Youth' discussion range. I think it's more of a "pathway" discussion.
This is a great point.
@Ballbaby called me last week and talked my ear off for 45 minutes about pathways. I think he has a man crush. Anyhow, he strongly believes that- on the boys side, anyhow- the BCPL is working in the sense of player development, but had a major beef w/ the system in place where WFC Residency simply comes in and plucks the cream of the crop out, and clubs like Surrey United are not compensated for the player they've signed.
Which is, really, completely bullshit. He's right. Dammit, handsome, and smart. Who knew?
Damn right the club that has developed the player should be compensated, and to me, it seems fair they should be compensated to the tune of the fees the parents have paid into the system, plus a reasonable finder's fee expense based on percentage (i.e.: 15%). That compensation then goes back to the parents whom have invested in their kid, and the club keeps the 15% on top. So, for a kid that has been in the BCPL system 4 years, that is ~$10K that should go back into the hands of the parents, and the club should receive a $1500.00 fee that is sunk back into operating costs. We're not talking big bucks here, but, yeah...for all those parents that are investing huge in an invisible pathway? It's something. I bet almost none of them know there is next to nothing waiting for their kids on the other side of the BCPL experience. Maybe University, maybe College, and we all know, in Canada, that's a solid $1500.00 / year scholarship that doesn't come close to covering expenses (mine went to beer, mostly).
But, hey...our big problem around here is grassroots development, right? Christ, at this rate, we can't afford to develop any more, parents will really start to figure our there is nothing at the end of the rainbow!
This is a great point.
@Ballbaby called me last week and talked my ear off for 45 minutes about pathways. I think he has a man crush. Anyhow, he strongly believes that- on the boys side, anyhow- the BCPL is working in the sense of player development, but had a major beef w/ the system in place where WFC Residency simply comes in and plucks the cream of the crop out, and clubs like Surrey United are not compensated for the player they've signed.
Which is, really, completely bullshit. He's right. Dammit, handsome, and smart. Who knew?
Damn right the club that has developed the player should be compensated, and to me, it seems fair they should be compensated to the tune of the fees the parents have paid into the system, plus a reasonable finder's fee expense based on percentage (i.e.: 15%). That compensation then goes back to the parents whom have invested in their kid, and the club keeps the 15% on top. So, for a kid that has been in the BCPL system 4 years, that is ~$10K that should go back into the hands of the parents, and the club should receive a $1500.00 fee that is sunk back into operating costs. We're not talking big bucks here, but, yeah...for all those parents that are investing huge in an invisible pathway? It's something. I bet almost none of them know there is next to nothing waiting for their kids on the other side of the BCPL experience. Maybe University, maybe College, and we all know, in Canada, that's a solid $1500.00 / year scholarship that doesn't come close to covering expenses (mine went to beer, mostly).
But, hey...our big problem around here is grassroots development, right? Christ, at this rate, we can't afford to develop any more, parents will really start to figure our there is nothing at the end of the rainbow!
True, there are a lot of intangibles that can be gleaned from going through the process that is to be a university athlete, no matter what level. It looks great on a resume, and gives you a clear edge in applying for jobs. Plus, the experience alone is priceless in a lot of cases, especially at the CIS level or various NCAA levels. From that perspective, a $25K investment seems an easier decision.
Canucks4Ever
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #138
@Regs I'm inclined to agree, we're talking pathway and system here atm. Now I am sure someone will be along to ruin it soon by posting about how their specific kids "gold team is better than the HPL team and they should all get to have spots on the team but the admin of the HPL team is corrupt and systematically discriminating against their kids blah blah blah...."
That's not the point here though. This is about so much more than who is or is not on what team where, it's about a development system that is in no way about development. We all agree the system of youth development needs an overhaul. @dezza is right, parents expect some sort of return on investment for the "X" thousand dollars they have poured into their kid's HPL soccer "career" and saying "hey you've made our men's first team in the VMSL/FVSL/VISL" isn't exactly going to cut it.
I think @Dude is right about somehow monetizing the development process. It's tricky and a bit of a Pandora's Box, but why would a club (youth or otherwise) devote resources to developing players when the Whitecaps or whoever else can just swoop in at any point and hijack the player? There's no motivation. Now of course this system could be taken advantage of by money hungry organizations who just sign up a bunch of kids and refuse to let them leave, so it would require strict laws and governance, which is why it doesn't exist and is unlikely to be created. Still though, maybe one day a system like this could compliment a national semi-pro league where in clubs have their own academies?? Ahh dreams...
On the contrary, I'm arguing that development is a moot point in all this.
Developing for what? A crack at playing University? The same opportunity they would have had without the BCPL in place?
This is not to disparage the BCPL, they may very well be producing better players than those that were coming out of Metro previously, but the end result is essentially the same. Sure, a select very few end up in WFC residence, but what we have are, some going to Div. 1, many going to CIS, and a whole bunch ending up in Canadian Colleges.
So, the reality right now is...without a CSL in place, there really is no change in the grand scheme of things.
How this morphed from "Surrey Utd. to FVSL" into "CSL" is beyond me, but it's not my fault.
Developing for what? A crack at playing University? The same opportunity they would have had without the BCPL in place?
This is not to disparage the BCPL, they may very well be producing better players than those that were coming out of Metro previously, but the end result is essentially the same. Sure, a select very few end up in WFC residence, but what we have are, some going to Div. 1, many going to CIS, and a whole bunch ending up in Canadian Colleges.
So, the reality right now is...without a CSL in place, there really is no change in the grand scheme of things.
How this morphed from "Surrey Utd. to FVSL" into "CSL" is beyond me, but it's not my fault.
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