Regional Tier 3 League

[Dude]

I was texting with a friend and local high-up club exec yesterday- sounds and smells like Balls- and we both agreed it was an interesting concept that clubs like Surrey United have to have a hard, serious look at, and not a lot of time.

Basically, two decisions for clubs like SU, CMF, et all:

1. Is this concept viable, and is it right for our club?
2. Can we as a club justify financing $70K / year to this endeavor?

If the answer to those two questions is yes, then the real work begins, paramount a fundraising / budget plan, because membership will not accept simply forking out $x increase to club dues just to fund this campaign.

The failure of the VMSL / VISL / FVSL to get together years ago and essentially create this will now haunt them. Those mens leagues will not become irrelevant- older players will still need a place to play- but they would presumably be watered down of young talent. You'd suspect that, upon establishment of the Tier III league, that it would be granted a certain number of Provincial Championship berths. Eventually, you'd see the league expand it's number of games into what would otherwise be a full season of 18 matches plus Cups (Provincial, Amway), played over late Spring / Summer / Early fall, to match the rest of the country.

Basically, this is an endeavor to correct a longtime wrong. It's an endeavor to fill in the cobblestones of a broken pathway. Anyone who truly believes the big three leagues are part of a cradle-to-grave pathway are fooling themselves. Some clubs are trying to integrate, and good for them for doing so, but essentially, if you find yourself in playing Premier in any of the three leagues, you are on your last stop. That's OK, there is nothing wrong with that. We have some good quality football being played in those leagues...but it's still the last stop.

Here is the huge irony...we may yet see a team from the Valley win Provincials, but that team will not be a FVSL team, it'll be a Tier III team.

@LION, you've been conspicuously quiet. What say you?

 

[dezza]

@Dude the D3 leagues in ON & QC do not participate in provincials...

So I Imagine the BC ones would not either and instead the top teams from the 3 regional D3 leagues would actually qualify for their own "national" tournament

 

[Dude]

@Dude the D3 leagues in ON & QC do not participate in provincials...

So I Imagine the BC ones would not either and instead the top teams from the 3 regional D3 leagues would actually qualify for their own "national" tournament

I wasn't aware of that. Shows how closely I follow it, thanks.

So...back to an earlier post from 2015 in this thread- I think by @djones - if this Tier III is truly to be a grade above local Prem leagues, and "Professionally run", isn't then about time the Amway competition was opened up? It could be done by allowing these Tier II and Tier III teams to play in a preliminary tourney, and maybe top 2-4 teams there get placed into the final tourney with the MLS squads?

Now I'm just spit-balling.

I'd like to see something like this happen...and TBH I like the preliminary work they've done, and the transparency to show the public. No cloak and dagger routine, and no secrecy like there seemed to be in the failed merger.

 

[Regs]

I do not think teams in this league will be involved in the Provincials as we now know it... I don't believe the Ontario & Quebec equivalent leagues participate in theirs. Plus the proposed season dates of this league doesn't mesh with the current BC calendar.

These teams in this league SHOULD be put into the Amway / Canadian Open process anyways... league winner plays the Whitecaps (regional professional club) to then go to the "big dance".

Agreed that current adult leagues will take a "hit" - perhaps a better term would be "change".

Would be interested to learn a little more on how this league will compete with College/Universities for younger players.

 

[Regs]

Ninja'd twice even

 

[Dude]

Haha...great minds? Maybe fantasifull minds think alike?

Regs, I see it pretty clearly: it's be the next progression for those Uni / College players that still want to play as high as they are capable.

If the CPL come into play, you know that there will be a CIS draft, and the best CIS players will transition to that level, but there will be plenty not up to the same level that will fall back into the Tierr III level.

You'd have to even think that part of the motivation here is to provide that stepping stone that will be required. The cream of the crop will be involved in MLS Residency, we already know that. They will follow the club pathway to MLS, and part of that pathway, I'd imagine, will include a Tier III squad stint for some. Then USL, then MLS.

For the best of the rest: HPL, Uni/College, TierIII, TierII (CPL), MLS / Elsewhere.

The big three effectively become retirement leagues. When reality kicks in, and the dream is clearly over, but you still want competitive footy while you build a career and family, those leagues are there. Nothing wrong with that, but let's stop trying to pretend they could be / should be a stepping stone to MLS. They aren't, and never will be. What they are now is just fine, but let's recognize them for what they are, and get on with building a proper pathway.

 

[bandcamp]

I see the U23 age requirements (roster and starter minimum) but I'd be extremely surprised, and disappointed, if the entire roster of each team was not made up of U23's...and skewing way younger than that.

 

[Soccer Coach]

I was texting with a friend and local high-up club exec yesterday- sounds and smells like Balls- and we both agreed it was an interesting concept that clubs like Surrey United have to have a hard, serious look at, and not a lot of time.

Basically, two decisions for clubs like SU, CMF, et all:

1. Is this concept viable, and is it right for our club?
2. Can we as a club justify financing $70K / year to this endeavor?

If the answer to those two questions is yes, then the real work begins, paramount a fundraising / budget plan, because membership will not accept simply forking out $x increase to club dues just to fund this campaign.

The failure of the VMSL / VISL / FVSL to get together years ago and essentially create this will now haunt them. Those mens leagues will not become irrelevant- older players will still need a place to play- but they would presumably be watered down of young talent. You'd suspect that, upon establishment of the Tier III league, that it would be granted a certain number of Provincial Championship berths. Eventually, you'd see the league expand it's number of games into what would otherwise be a full season of 18 matches plus Cups (Provincial, Amway), played over late Spring / Summer / Early fall, to match the rest of the country.

Basically, this is an endeavor to correct a longtime wrong. It's an endeavor to fill in the cobblestones of a broken pathway. Anyone who truly believes the big three leagues are part of a cradle-to-grave pathway are fooling themselves. Some clubs are trying to integrate, and good for them for doing so, but essentially, if you find yourself in playing Premier in any of the three leagues, you are on your last stop. That's OK, there is nothing wrong with that. We have some good quality football being played in those leagues...but it's still the last stop.

Here is the huge irony...we may yet see a team from the Valley win Provincials, but that team will not be a FVSL team, it'll be a Tier III team.

@LION, you've been conspicuously quiet. What say you?

I hate to say it, but @Dude seems to be very correct here. I was thinking about the news on my walk back to home, and I just came to see that @Dude has expressed very well what I had on my mind.

This is essentially the end to the VMSL and FVSL Premier as we know it.
However, they have to accept ownership on the possible future irrelevancy. So many things were pointed out and not corrected (i.e. allowing 14 year olds to play in Premier, turning a blind eye on the erratic foreign funding and the havoc created in competition, lack of investigation and consistency on assaults of players {i.e. Poli and others}, scheduling games under suboptimal conditions, lack of cooperation between the leagues, and the list goes on.

Players and the game have to be protected and nurtured.

I must say that although I saw it coming. I did not see it coming this fast. It is inevitable. BCPL and Metro programs are providing a huge number of players and families with new expectations. There is no way that the VMSL Premier or FVSL Premier teams can provide satisfaction to these "customers", so BC soccer has to step in. Very clever of BC Soccer as they have essentially created their own demand for the product that they are trying to provide.

If anything the VMSL and FVSL Premier leagues are a threat to the BCPL and new Metro concept. This about this. You pay thousands of dollars for your kid to get soccer instruction and then VMSL and FVSL premier teams turn them away for valid or not so valid reasons.
Where do they go to play?

The only problem that I see is the lack of competition with the lack of relegation/promotion. In my opinion BC Soccer should run an all compassing amateur competitive league (Premier, Division 1, Division 2, Division 3, etc) with regional sub divisions. This is the way that is done in most parts of the world. It works because it provides competition and the amateur, semi-professional, and fully professional are integrated organically without needing of policing.

 

[Soccer Coach]

ps. I hope that this is a wake up call to the VMSL and the FVSL. Unless they get their act together, this is the end for their premier leagues.

 

[ThiKu]

ps. I hope that this is a wake up call to the VMSL and the FVSL. Unless they get their act together, this is the end for their premier leagues.

why would that be? BC RT3 is a summer league.

 

[Soccer Coach]

why would that be? BC RT3 is a summer league.

I do not have time to go into detailed discussions. Essentially, it would be the end of the VMSL Premier monopoly on top amateur soccer. If it is successful during the summer it would not take long to expand it. I am also not sure that BC soccer might not suddenly make this league the one that qualifies for Nationals. They did that for youth, so they can change it for adult too.

 

[Regs]

They did that for youth, so they can change it for adult too.

Not anymore, this last October was the last Nationals that HPL teams would represent BC...

Some friendly advice: calm down on the rhetoric as your going off the deep end here and the PROPOSED league doesn't even have a single franchise... you still need to play somewhere...

 

[Soccer Coach]

Not anymore, this last October was the last Nationals that HPL teams would represent BC...

Some friendly advice: calm down on the rhetoric as your going off the deep end here and the PROPOSED league doesn't even have a single franchise... you still need to play somewhere...

Thank you for the clarification.
why? do you know the reasons?
as for your other comment....entertaining reads do not come from calmed discussion...

 

[utah]

Like I have said before. Players from other countries have said that we have the best rec leagues in the world.
I am really hoping a lot of players from these leagues decide to cross over to help make this a success.
To think youth players are going to set and present this high standard is off the mark.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Like I have said before. Players from other countries have said that we have the best rec leagues in the world."
In terms of what? Facilities. Yes, I agree. The turf fields and referees are quite good with respect to most amateur leagues in the world. Even many National Teams do not have the luxury of training in good turf or facilities. We are very lucky to have this.
As for quality, I am sorry. This is completely delusional.
You know a ranking of 118th in the world does not come from nothing. There is a close relationship between the level of play at the amateur level and professional level.
Canadian soccer both professional and amateur is miles behind the rest of the world. The quicker that you come to accept it, even if it hurts the ego, the sooner than you can start to fix it.

 

[Soccer Coach]

and to put things in perspective, I put the video of a game from a second division from a country that has made it to the World Cup several times and has beaten Canada several times including 7-1. Look at the field and the spectators (rest assured that they are not paying entrie fees)


I am glad that you are trying guys, but you are overcomplicating things. BC Soccer just needs to set up a regular league and let market forces and competitiveness to take care of itself. The most efficient clubs will rise to the top and the inefficient ones do not make it. Let the clubs themselves to figure out and freely choose players, coaches, and business structure.
The free market is the best tool for the development of the game. Things are not as highly regulated in most parts of the world. I really do not completely get why people in charge of Canadian amateur and professional soccer do not get it.

 

[Dude]

Like I have said before. Players from other countries have said that we have the best rec leagues in the world.
I am really hoping a lot of players from these leagues decide to cross over to help make this a success.
To think youth players are going to set and present this high standard is off the mark.

I'm not so sure about that, but I guess it depends on what you term "youth". The league will be stacked w/ University players. Some youth, sure, but they'd need to make the cut.

The league is essentially U-23, so yes, but open men's standards, that is young. When we were relatively old Premier players (28 ish), whenever we played a young team, our strategy was all about absorbing the early pressure and speed, then winning the hard challenges, and controlling possession. We were by and large successful...but we were also a pretty strong group of veterans and typically near or at the top of the table.

That being said, we always carried one or two young studs. Those guys earned their time.

What would- in theory- happen now is that those young studs would move into this new TierIII league. Take Connor, what would he do?

You and I have had several carbonated beverages over the years and we definitely agree on the quality of the amateur leagues out here, so you won't find me disputing that. But...I think we'd also agree on the broken pathway, and the fact that our Premier leagues are the last stop. For players of Connor's quality, that's fcuking criminal. It's about time our governing bodies started correcting that issue.

@ThiKu - quite right on the summer play, and the shortened schedule, but how long do you think it will be till they expand that to 12, then 18 games? At that point, players that are of ability and qualify will need to pick their pony.

I don't think it's the end of the VMSL / VISL / FVSL Premier divisions, but it will water down those divisions. The dynamic will change.

Again, I definitely look back on the failed attempt to merge the leagues and create a 10 team, summer based, Premier League as very instrumental to this new step. Maybe that was when the wheel started turning, who knows.

 

[Sliver]

Not anymore, this last October was the last Nationals that HPL teams would represent BC...

When was this announced?

 

[LION]

Exciting times ahead. Love this new concept and it's much needed. I've been saying for years and years that we need a top premier men's division to be played through the summer months. Actually have a chance to get crowds out and showcase the best products of top clubs. Have the top HPL players have a better pathway and continue playing post 18 years old.
I don't see why the budget needs to be so high per team. 70k is a lot of money.

And what do the clubs get if their tier 3 player moves on to tier 2 or above? Do they get to sell the player? We do need free enterprise. Or what is the benefit of the clubs producing top talent. What does the club get?

We need to work on the culture of the game. 15 year Olds should want to play for their clubs first team. And have goals of cracking it. Or get excited on a call up to the clubs u21 team when 16. Hopefully this keeps more top talent in soccer with an end goal of playing "semi pro or pro" soccer. With more avenues and options.

The clubs themselves have to set this culture up. BC soccer would have to promote this league as well. As well as rugby does with their league.

Surrey United vs Metro ford on a Saturday night in summer would or should be a big local match that brings 100's of each clubs memberships to watch.
If you are a soccer family and your boy plays for surrey United at age 7. Why would you not go watch that game and put those local top players on a pedestal. The same guys he is watching is perhaps coaching Him in the club the next week. Kids make a connection, Looks up to these local semi pros. All positive for our game.

As good as vmsl premier soccer is. We play in the coldest and most wet time of the year. It's tough for soccer crazy folks to even stand through some of the weather to watch top level local soccer. Half the fields suck and are so slick that most through balls or long diagonal switch balls just skip off the turf out of bounds or in to the goalies hands.
Playing at the same time as the rest of the country and MLS just makes sense.
The excuse that people are too busy in the summer is shite. If you don't want to commit through those months and rather be on a boat then so be it. Your not a footballer. Period. These November/December/January cold wet months is for taking off to Mexico or Hawaii or studying or putting your head down and making money.

So clubs spend the 70k. Develop great youth players that get selected to these team . But what do they get in return? Ticket sales at their home Park?
The players who play at this level should not pay a penny. Clubs should get a kick back or be able to sell them off to other clubs or higher league clubs. That is how it works world wide! Why can we not get there here? You Want this player we developed to play whitecaps2? 20k please.
Then we will see clubs developing players and not developing over paid club positions to manage rec clubs with no pathways.


Hope this works out and soccer families support their district teams and show our future footballers we actually have a pathway to semi pro or pro soccer in our own country. I could see a surrey United get 1000 people to watch and 80% of that their own membership. If they promote it right and and create that internal club culture.

I'm all over the map here. Some rum in the sun styles.

 

[LION]

All in all we need to take soccer serious if we ever want to grow the game and culture. Setting up pathways and creating goals for kids will only help this.
That kid who sees he could make this tier 3 league might stay in soccer rather then choose hockey.
That one club match he watches that summer night that has 800 people at it could be the match that keeps him playing soccer and pushing to maybe be him 5 years later playing in front of those people. It's tangible. It's a beauty first step to growing our game in Canada!