Regional Tier 3 League

[GhostRider]

Memberships I would think should be explored here though with the way our population is laid out, teams based along ethnic lines would tend to get the most.

That being all said, how many teams realistically could survive and be supported here in BC? I tend to think that even 8 would be a stretch, no?

Immigrant-wise Australia is very similar to Canada. If you look at the teams listed in one of their tier 2 leagues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Premier_Leagues_Victoria) none of them have 'ethnic' names. However, if you dig deeper into their Wiki pages you find most of them are backed by an ethnic community. (e.g. Melbourne Knights represents the Croat community. Average attendance 4-5,000 per game.) It's not clear to me if the league has a rule about 'no ethnic names' for the teams - but their logos definitely have ethnic motifs.

If we use Melbourne or Sydney as like-comparisons to Vancouver then the answer is yes we do have the population to support a semi-pro league. The bigger mystery is where is the leadership going to come from to make it happen? Grass roots clubs (youth and adult) have close ties to the community and access to people-power. Associations (ie. BCSA) have access to resources and civil/govt influence. Outsiders like the Vancouver Giants (as an example) have systems and know-how. It will probably take a combination of these three forces to come together in some way to come up with something sustainable.

 

[Regs]

If the youth clubs were allowed to grow organically into the adult levels of play (or vice versa), that could emulate the club system the way it is in Oz. How many would you need to make such a system viable? You'd have to have at least the same budget for travel and fields as an BCPL team does, and then a bit more to retain player$.

So $2000 per player to play. Where do I sign up?

 

[trece verde]

If it was easy, we'd have a league like this by now...

Obviously, the average punter is not going to pay that much to belong to a tier 3 club, even if their kids are playing.and/or supposedly have a better chance to climb up the ladder. I was looking more at the cost to run a club at that level than cost to play. It's a valid point that's not lost though, Regs, and it means one of two things: either there has to be an outside entity willing to put up substantial coin for very limited return to get these type of franchises off the ground, or else club membership is going to have to be at the 10K+ level for bodies.

 

[djones]

This is what is happening just south of the border in Washington...

To read more ...

Nationwide Leagues

Major League Soccer (Tier I) - 17 US clubs + 3 Canadian clubs nationwide
- Seattle Sounders

North American Soccer League (Tier II) - 9 US clubs + 2 Canadian clubs nationwide
- none

United Soccer League (Tier II/Tier III) - 21 US clubs + 3 Canadian clubs nationwide
- Seattle Sounders II

National Premier Soccer League (Tier IV) - 68 teams clubs nationwide
- FC Tacoma 253
- Spartans Futbol Club

USL Professional Developmental League U23 (Tier ???) - 63 US clubs + 8 Canadian clubs nationwide
- Seattle Sounders U23
- Puget Sound FC U23
- Kitsap Pumas
- Washington Crossfire

Major Arena Soccer League (???) - 22 clubs nationwide
- Tacoma Stars

Evergreen Premier League (affiliated with the US Adult Soccer Association) - 78 clubs nationwide
- Bellingham United (former PCSL)
- Olympic Force
- Seattle Stars FC
- South Sound FC
- Spokane Shadow
- Vancouver Victory FC
- Wenatchee FC
- Yakima United FC

*Washington State also have a men's league tier below this similar to what we have.

**They also have NCAA Div I/II/III and NAIA college/university leagues

***also have USSDA league for U18/U16/U14

 

[GhostRider]

If the youth clubs were allowed to grow organically into the adult levels of play (or vice versa), that could emulate the club system the way it is in Oz. .

Can you expand on this? How are youth clubs not allowed to grow organically?

 

[Dude]

Some clubs have figured out organic growth, others not. I think that what Trece may be getting at is that many of the clubs seem to have a clear line of separation between the youth and open men's leagues. That said, it's the natural progression of a football player around here...you need to be able to make the grade in order to get signed into a men's squad. Guys are protecting their spots and don't want to hand it over to some young punk. That said, I think it would be better if clubs somehow mandated open trials for youth players graduating, at the very least. Give them somewhat of a fair shot to take a spot.

The model you post above, DJ, is interesting. I suppose ours would look something like that, too. And why couldn't a tier II or III league be established? Again, it was tried w/ the proposed Merger, and put in the grave by I think mostly self interested parties, but self interested parties that had very legitimate concerns about the process and logistics.

The biggest obvious issue is finances. You need a white knight, like a Kerfoot, who will throw money at this, and fund it. The paying customer will not. Like Regs said, the 86ers drew 5,000 on any given night, maybe 7,500 n a big night, and barely survived. Probably lost money on a year/over/year basis. Maybe partly by design, but I think that the revenues simply could not prop it up on their own. If Kerfoot, or someone like that w/ loads of cash and nothing to do w/ it were to set aside a fund...who knows. Maybe it could work, but man...Godspeed to anyone taking this project on. You have my best wishes, but a lot of things need to fall in place to make this doable.

 

[RL RCD]

In a hockey crazed country the chance that another sport succeeds is slim to none. There is simply no (enough) financial support to make it work.

 

[GhostRider]

Does anybody have any inside info on the PCSL? How is that league doing? What is average attendance? Why aren't people talking about it like *the* semi-pro league?

 

[djones]

All the teams I listed above in Washington State can qualify for the US Open Cup as well. Not like our Amway Canadian Championship where the only teams to qualify are 5 "pro" teams.

 

[Regs]

Does anybody have any inside info on the PCSL? How is that league doing? What is average attendance? Why aren't people talking about it like *the* semi-pro league?

No inside info but from the outside, they seem to be wishy-washy with teams dropping out and new ones coming in on a yearly basis.

Victoria Highlanders were resurrected and play there now.

@bandcamp - how has Vancouver United done attendance-wise?

 

[Regs]

In a hockey crazed country the chance that another sport succeeds is slim to none. There is simply no (enough) financial support to make it work.

Jack Warner would disagree I bet

 

[trece verde]

Thanks for providing an expansion of my point, Dude. Essentially, the way the sport has developed, the largest stakeholders are the youth clubs (holding money, players and political strength by numbers). When they figure out (soon, I hope) that the adult version of the sport doesn't always have to be at loggerheads with the youth part, growth will occur by adding adult teams to the youth clubs - like some of us have done already. If it's done this way, then you have a growth model that also helps stabilize a supply of players. With the right coaching and administrative decisions, you can get the best players in the right spots, and still hold on to those guys who have been displaced by providing them with somewhere to play as well.

 

[Regs]

This is the only way the dreaded CAT system would have a hope in hell.

Bottom up rather than Top down approach.

 

[Dude]

This: http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/league-is-coming-r5279

Any connection?

Also, how would something like this integrate w/ the MLS? I mean, it would have to, wouldn't it, for this to succeed?

Also, could the MLS' three Canadian teams realistically hold a draft from something like this of all unattached players?

It's compelling, but like I think we've all thought and all mentioned above, financial concerns, need a white knight.

 

[Regs]

Great find @Dude

With the mention of CFL and other sports ownership, I don't see any current MLS teams involvement. Which is a good thing I think at this stage as they all have too many fingers in the soccer pie in this country right now. Players in Canada need OPTIONS of varying degrees that are not hindered because, for example, they weren't identified at an early stage to drink from the Whitecaps koolaid.

 

[Dude]

I may have poached that find from another board, but thanks.

My nose smells like jockstraps,

~Dude.

 

[Dude]

To your post...

Not "coolaid", but some attachment. At the end of the day, the MLS is the top tier in this Country, and will be going forward (unless the league implodes).

I don't think there needs to be an affiliation in ownership, but could it hurt to have something? I state the draft as one for the reasons that the Div. 1 draft they hold for the MLS has proven to have very little value to the Canadian MLS teams (maybe all). I still see that there needs to be a pathway here...something, a carrot, for the players to chase. Is a career earning minimum wages enough? I don't think it is.

We already have top amature leagues sprinkled w/ very good players that have very good careers, and play for the competition alone on the weekends. Whatever this league is, it's not for the VMSL Premier player.

Also, the establishment of what DJ describes as a true national divisional format, where every professional or semi-professional side qualifies for the Canadian Championship.

Anyhow, this is a Unicorn, to me. Love to see it as more, but too many unanswered questions...but at least they are giving themselves a lot of time to fill in the blanks. I do like that the announcement will come sooner than later.

 

[Regs]

When's the AGM?

@ArticleBot is asking and she's getting on my tits

 

[akslop]

I'll leave you 2 alone

 

[akslop]

I mean 3. Sorry @ArticleBot