New VMSL Divisional Structure (proposal)

[Shriner]

I agree with Jinky in that more divs should be created to even out the playing field. Excluding CRAP (oops i meant CAT) there are 64 teams registered in "competitive" soccer; (14 in premier, 20- div 1, and 30- div 2). Well, if premier teams are satisfied with having 14 teams, then whats the recourse? If i was in a 30 team Div2, I would be pissed b/c your promo depends on your alignment. There will always be a better grouping compared to others, but i find it to be b.s. when there are a few Div 2 teams that are stuck in Div 2 b/c it is hard to go out of considering the group that u are in. This year I believe 5 Div 2 teams went up to Div 1. 3 out of those 5 will stay up. Firefighters C i'm not sure of, but for the Primos defence, they were given like a 2 or 3 week notice before the season started that they will be in Div1, which was detrimental in their recruitment process, b/c a majority of players are already signed. I dunno what Im talkin about b/c I'm a bit tipsy, but clone Einstein, he'll find a method

 

[Reccos]

In your opinion Reccos is this simply a matter of self-preservation (understandable as Turkeys don't vote for Christmas) on the part of Premier clubs or does the VMSL board genuinely think things are honky-dory?

Yes and yes.

As I recall, the meeting opened with Willi Azzi giving an overview and history of how the VMSL got to 14 teams in Premier and he gave a pretty convincing pitch for keeping the numbers the same. I can't recall which team reps, if any, were arguing for fewer teams.

I do recall some muttering in the background from some team reps that if they did drop the number of teams why should they have a Surrey (former FVSL) team in the League.

I thought there might be more of a groundswell for reduction but there wasn't. It was interesting that it was only the Premier teams involved in the discussion. If the League did have a push to reduce teams, they'd have to get a general meeting to pass this I believe and now there'd be Div. 1 teams ready for promotion likely not happy either.

 

[BlazeArmy]

Of the teams that went up last year 3 of 6 (Blaze, firefighters, wfc Rangers, city fc rangers, sarajevo, primos) came from the same side. You had a 3rd place team in Div 2 moving up to Div 1. Mind you i think they were probably the best candidates to go up but still that is way too many teams to be moving up a division.

 

[Reccos]

One comment. The VMSL decision to drop div. 3 was based on the President's view that there were too many problems with those teams. Everything from too many disciplinary problems to team management issues that took far too much time for the League for what were the worst teams apparently.

Has the ending of div. 3 achieved anything? I don't know.
To me, the bigger question is what happens with CAT? That to me is not working as it draws some good players out of the pool in the competitive groups seeking promotion. How can incoming Premier teams be able to stay up when you have 14 Div. 1 CAT teams with Div. 1 level players some of whom could/should be helping other clubs.

Is the super club idea of the VMSL, along with the CAT idea, working? The vision is a club system and no more independent single teams.

 

[bandcamp]

The vision is a club system and no more independent single teams.

That 'vision' was thrown out this year for some reason. Previously, any new team wanting into the VMSL had to become affiliated with an existing club and BE THEIR CAT TEAM - no more open spots given out. All of a sudden this year when some Div 1 teams dropped out and their spots were filled by Div 2 teams (3 on top of the 3 promoted legitimately) the league was needing more Div 2 teams to come into the open division. What do they do? Change their 'vision' and let them in. Where do you think MacDonald Realty came from?

Nice vision VMSL - did you send out apology letters to all of the clubs you made become CAT teams for teams they didn't want to? Did it read something like this?

Dear Teams we Made Enter CAT:

We're sorry but this year we needed money so we changed our mind.

Sincerely,

VMSL

 

[Keeper]

Of the teams that went up last year 3 of 6 (Blaze, firefighters, wfc Rangers, city fc rangers, sarajevo, primos) came from the same side. You had a 3rd place team in Div 2 moving up to Div 1. Mind you i think they were probably the best candidates to go up but still that is way too many teams to be moving up a division.

A linear league formed in a single-group divisional structure (one group of Premier, one group of Div 1, one group of Div 2, etc, right down to Div 14 or something) would solve this problem. When spots began opening up in Div 1 this year, the league had trouble choosing/asking which teams should fill the spots. After the three 1st place finishers were promoted, the league had to decide which of the three 2nd place finishers should be asked to move up. How can the league rightfully determine which of three teams from different groups is the best (read: most qualified) team to move up?

In a single-group divisional structure, if a space opens up, each team below shifts up one rank. Simple.

One comment. The VMSL decision to drop div. 3 was based on the President's view that there were too many problems with those teams. Everything from too many disciplinary problems to team management issues that took far too much time for the League for what were the worst teams apparently.

This argument from the league is bogus. So now the very same teams that would cause "too many problems" are stuck in with Div 2 teams who don't. Those "worst teams" (worst in the form of oranizational skills rather than playing skills) still exist, but now they are just lumped in with Div 2 teams. How is that saving the league any headaches?

As I recall, the meeting opened with Willi Azzi giving an overview and history of how the VMSL got to 14 teams in Premier and he gave a pretty convincing pitch for keeping the numbers the same.

Right . . .

This is the same guy who told me that The Excellent Site is just fine the way it is, and declined any free help to revamp it's appearance.

The problem with the whole system in general is that the only interests which are attended to are those of the premier teams because they are the only ones who actually go and speak up at the AGM. The same problem exists in the women's league (to a greater extent, however). What needs to happen is Div 2 and Div 1 teams to get out and exercise their voice and opinion at these league meetings. But what actually ends up happening is that most of those people have lives, families, or just can't be fcuked to get off the couch.

Ambivalence. It's the Canadian affliction.

 

[Reccos]

That 'vision' was thrown out this year for some reason. Previously, any new team wanting into the VMSL had to become affiliated with an existing club and BE THEIR CAT TEAM - no more open spots given out. All of a sudden this year when some Div 1 teams dropped out and their spots were filled by Div 2 teams (3 on top of the 3 promoted legitimately) the league was needing more Div 2 teams to come into the open division. What do they do? Change their 'vision' and let them in. Where do you think MacDonald Realty came from?

Nice vision VMSL - did you send out apology letters to all of the clubs you made become CAT teams for teams they didn't want to? Did it read something like this?

Dear Teams we Made Enter CAT:

We're sorry but this year we needed money so we changed our mind.

Sincerely,

VMSL

You make a great point. When we were booted out of Clan Alumni and my guys became the Sapperton CAT team in Div. 1, we were told by Willi that we had to become affiliated with a club or disband. He did not care that we had a pretty good side and very few cards EVER. Other members of the VMSL exec that I spoke to who had seen our team play were shocked and one told me that 'we need more teams like yours, not less'. That led to Joe McIntyre who also was on the exec at that time setting up a meeting between Kevin Hearne and I at a summer league game and one week later we joined Sapperton following a meeting with Bryan Wevers, Kevin, and Shane Mummery and reps from our team and I.

The year we lost the Clan Alumni franchise and were all booted out of the club, we ended with something like 22 or 23 points, one point better than Sikh Temple. We had the strong side of Div. 1 that year.

The reason they won't go to the single group is the inability to get all the games in. The 18/19 game season is all you can do between Sept and March. In summer, you can get 15 games plus playoffs in in 3.5 months as you don't get cancellations and you can even play two games in some weeks.

The large single group could only work with a revised season start.

 

[bandcamp]

So to all of the teams that WANTED to be in the open but were told they couldn't be - I would be pissed. Especially to you, Reccos - having to be part of Sapperton