New VMSL Divisional Structure (proposal)

[reedr]

one last overhaul

i listened and learned...and now i've posted a brand new proposal for us all to complain about. it is FAR better than the first one i put up, thanks to all those who posted a comment.

take a look via the old link or go direct here:
http://www.privateinvestor.com/feb25-2_VMSL_NEW.htm

thanks again


-reedr

 

[Regs]

Re: this reminds me.......

Originally posted by Sage
hey Regs,

whatever happened to the Champions League idea of yours?

I just started getting organised on that front again. Let's continue questions about that in the relevant thread though and not hijack reedr's work here...

Reedr,

Still looking good but put back in all teh Cup stuff in the revised document as well... I think a key point included ensuring 32 teams in the imperial or at least ALL of division 1 and Premier enter... no more giving a choice

~Regs.

 

[reedr]

back up again

the cup structure is back on the page again (~thanks regs)

btw, go ahead with the champions league thing...i created the proposal and this thread because i think the VMSL needs a smack in the head...all suggestions on how hard or with what are appreciated

what does everyone think about having 'Reserve Divisions' and a strict club affiliation / association structure anyways? (vs the dumb CAT system)


-reedr

 

[BlazeArmy]

I think it looks Ok but some teams don't want to put up with the politics of being affliated with a Club Association.

I for instance played for a FVSL league Club where our team always felt as though we were the unwanted stepchild and never ever saw anything good out of our relationship with our parent club. Other than a field and the occasionally deal and items we purchased I never saw anything of any value in our association.
This is despite the fact that we were the only team to have any success from year to year.(Promotion 4 years running, 3 league championships and 2 playoff championships, the valley had letter designations where you went from 1c to 1b then 1,really dumb). The only time we really saw any of our exec. was when it was near the end of the year and we were in the process of winning something.

The Club system is nice but not all of those out there want to deal with it. We associate with other teams in our club but don't have much to do with anyone else. We all belong to the same club because we were able to get spots in the league that way, there is no joint anything at least as far as i can tell. It works for us, we have no development team ,we are improving by getting friends of friends and players someone knows and he'll bring someone else along. It is that simple for us

 

[Gurps]

Blaze

Bringing friends of friends works to a certain point...especially in Div 2. However, for teams that aspire to play and stay in Premier, they need a good feeder system. The talent level is high, and friends of friends don't come along every day at that level. Hence a club system is needed to develop the players to play at a higher calibre. It all depends on what your goals and aspirations are.

 

[Dizou]

Realignment

There are a lot of good ideas floating around but i can't see anything happening until the VMSL admits there are problems.
Anything drastic like combining leagues or changing the season are VERY difficult. For example, if you change to April/May- Sept, what happens to Pacific Coast league? If you combine the VMSL and FVSL who will run it, Azzi? The FVSL? Some people would be out.

One thing the league could comsider in order to help make games more competitive is to limit the amount of players a team could sign.
Eg. If a team signs 22 guys, they would have to pick carefully ,and then would not be able to sign half of the Clan or UBC team (for example) later at the deadline. This may help other teams sign quality players if those players want to play winter ball.
Just an idea of course.

 

[Dude]

I like Hos’s ideas.

I’ve asked this before: what’s the problem with only having 10 teams in premier, then from Div 1 down, 10 per each side on down until you fill in all the slots? What really is wrong with having 5 or 6 divisions?

The goal is to improve the overall quality. The best way to do that is to get all the players playing under one league. This way, promotion through each division is truly earned.

Granted, if you went to this format, you may only have one or two of the FV teams get allocated, and possibly one Island team get allocated, but then, divs , 2, and 3 would be quite a bit stronger.

The way I see it, the added costs to the teams, really, is the travel. Seeing that the Island teams would need to do more, this may eliminate them…but there is no reason why the FV and Metro shouldn’t merge.

Good ideas all around.

 

[Teelay]

More Divisions

I fully support the idea of 4 or 5 ... even 6 separate divisions; it's just the split between divisions that annoys a lot of people now.

 

[watcher]

common sense

Gomesy16 then dude wheres my car and finally teelay all seem to agree with what I have been wondering. Why cant we have ten teams per group? Who cares how many divisions. It is so simple I can't believe anybody would think differently. I would scrap the CAT crap and have an FA cup stye everyone is in cup. Promotion and relegation should be one up - one down or maximum two up two down. This would truly be the best system. 50 teams playing in div two .......pathetic stupidity........And then you have these loser div 1 CAT /premier wannabe players....give me a break!!!!!!!


NK Hrvat all the way!!!!!!

 

[Gomesy16]

A step backwards to go forward

Thanks Watcher. Definitely the way to go.

Wasn't the VMSL at one time a 7 or more division league? I remember my dad talking about going up the ladder with his team through many divisions before finally making it to the Premier division.

I'd like to see the move to that system again, I think it would be for the best. You'd have far less of a gap between teams in each division, which would result in better competition.

 

[Teelay]

It's just too logical .... the VMSL would never go for it.

 

[Hands of Stone]

1 More Relegated and Promoted From Div. 1 and Premier

With the league coming to an end, and the relegation and promotion getting sorted out for next year, how about this.

The second place teams in Div. 1 play off (FF vs. ST) for the chance to move up to Premier the following year, that would be 3 teams from Div. 1 moving up.
The 2 6th place teams in Premeir would play off (ACM vs. Toons) to see who would be relegated.
Just a thought, it would make games at the end of the year a little more interesting for teams that are out of 7th spot by a mile, but still want to get into 5th or higher in Premier.

Or you could add one more game, and just have the loser of the 6th place game from Premier play the winner of the 2 1st. Div. teams. Winner is in Premier, loser in 1st Div.

Just a thought, there are 3 teams that get relegated from 1st to 2nd.

HOS

 

[J_B]

Why not have a home and away game with aggragate(sp?) involved.

Cheers
JB

 

[Jinky]

It seems as though all VMSL divisions have at least two whipping boy teams taking weekly kickings and perhaps it is time to once again ask questions about the current VMSL structure.

Is there enough talent in the VMSL to support a 14 team Premier, a 34 team Div 1 and a 50 team div 2? I say no.

This subject hasn't been discussed for over a year and a half, so have things changed? Does anyone know if restructuring is ever mentioned at League meetings? Does anyone have any new ideas (or old) for how things should be set up?

 

[bandcamp]

Not sure how to approach the CAT section but in Open play I suggest following the VISL:

10 teams in Premier
10 teams in Div 1
10 teams in Div 2 and so on...

One team from each division is relegated and one promoted every year. Teams will ultimately land in the division where they belong and the level of play will be MUCH more competitive.

 

[Shriner]

I totally agree that having 10 teams in each div would be for the best. I mean you get to actually play each team in your own div twice a year and the level of play will be relatively equal in each div. But the problem and question is how to do it? How do you relegate 4 Premier teams down to Div 1 and 14 teams from Div 1 to Div 2 and so on. It would be challenging to accomplish this. One way to do this task is by having a extra long season for 1 year. For ex. wipe out the "A" and "B" sides and start the 14 team Premier Div in August. Each team plays each other twice and the bottom 4 go down to Div 1, leaving 10 Premier teams for the yr after. Or make it 5 go down b/c 1 Div 1 team has to come up. But for Div 1 and 2, the task is trickier b/c Div 1 already has 20 teams and Div 2 has 30 teams, excluding CAT of course. But I'm sure that Div 2 would have about 6-10 teams that would voluntarily relegate themselves (ex. McDicks Realty). There must be a math major on this site that could figure out some sorta formula

 

[GETINTHERE18]

Bandcamp is right.

If you have to say that you are playing Men's Div 6 or 7 you should just suck it up and say it.

There is likely a reason for it in the first place.

GIT18

 

[Jinky]

I definitely agree with a 10 team Premier but I don't think that every division has to have only 10 teams as well. The talent available probably works like a pyramid but not the way the VMSL does it. Excluding the Cat system,the 30 - 20 - 14 divisions isn't a very gradual talent shift. I'm sure I couldn't come up with the correct numbering but I think adding a couple of divisions and going something like Divisions 4, 3 and 2 containing 14 teams each, Div 1 with 12 teams and Premier with 10 would spread out the talent nicely. It would add value to the top 3 divisions and even things out a bit.

Shriner addresses the question, how would this all be implemented? As they say in Fubar, just give 'er. Let all clubs know a season in advance that there will be a restructuring involving very limited promotion and loads of relegation and play-offs. It would make for one hell of a year.

 

[Reccos]

Jinky: the number of teams in Premier has been addressed by the VMSL executive and the Premier clubs. When I was with Sapperton's B team I went with Bryan Wevers to a meeting last season (?) where this was discussed fully with this the only agenda item.

In a nutshell...there was no way the teams were supporting reducing the numbers i Premier and one of the reasons is the history of expansion when the two Surrey teams from the FVSL were added.

As I recall, no one made any case for reducing the numbers and how bad the quality was because there were 14 teams.

It would really make sense to have a different season than Sept - March for League play. A schedule where in say every second week, you play two games would help gets games in a compact schedule.

The CAT system should be scrapped as there is nothing for players to play for and it does water down the teams who are competing for promotion as there are too many in CAT. Is there any stability in rosters on any of the CAT teams say in Div. 1. During the few years I coached CAT in Div. 1, I sure didn't recognize CAT teams from one year to the next and they sure didn't all go to their Premier sides.

CAT is crap for a number of reasons including the reality that CAT does not work for cup play so what is the point. If they want to mirror soccer on say the professional leagues, I hardly think there is a rule that reserve players can't be called up during cup play in England for example. That is the purpose of reserve sides - for players to be available.

 

[Jinky]

In your opinion Reccos is this simply a matter of self-preservation (understandable as Turkeys don't vote for Christmas) on the part of Premier clubs or does the VMSL board genuinely think things are honky-dory?