New VMSL Divisional Structure (proposal)

[BlazeArmy]

Oops shld read bottom 12 teams play prelim game

Math on total games is way out too reedr

9 games in an 18 team league a week. you need 17 weeks to play everyone = 153 games

ina 20 team league you have 10 games and 19 weeks
=190 games

My proposal has 876 league games
and 95 cup games

+ one playoff game

 

[Gurps]

Blaze Army

Blaze...you are missing the point. No one in the VMSL wants the Premier expanded to 18 teams. The quality suffers. Any proposal with an expanded Premier won't work. I think most want to see the Premier division down to 8 teams. This way teams have a better chance at making the nationals through increased competition. This improves the image of the league as a whole.

 

[BlazeArmy]

How about

10 premier 2up 2down
18 div 1 2up 3down
18 div 2 3 up 3 down
18 div 3 3 up 3down
18 div 4 3 up
16 team reserve league
Premier teams get reserves first 6 teams from the top of Div 1
starting with relegated teams

 

[Gurps]

That makes more sense...and more along the lines to what I was thinking.

GURPSWHOSCLOSESTBRUSHWITHPREMIERWASSITTINGONTHETEMPLEBENCH.

 

[BlazeArmy]

On second thought make the reserve league a joined one with FVSL CAT teams if an agreement can be reached. Only Premier teams have dedicated reserve all other so called 'B' squads can play down in the divisions.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Too Many Leagues and Teams, WATERS Down the Quality

Originally posted by DJones
Another idea I would suggest is to have the FVSL and PCSL join. That may help bridge the gap of the top teams in Premier and the bottom teams. Why we have 3 different men's league in the Lower Mainland is beyond me.

Bring the Top Leagues together in the Lower Mainland, there is no reason that we need a FVSL Premier Div. and VMSL Premier Div. playing at the same time during the winter, when the geography of the whole area is not that big.
Why not have the best teams throughout the LowerMainland (VMSL, FVSL, PCSL) playing each other, so the quallity of local soccer is raised.

The idea of adding more teams to the Premier Div. just from VMSL teams is crazy.

Players and teams that should not be in the league still are because of this expansion, It is just like the NHL.

This is why teams struggle to sign enough players to go through the whole year, if a guy that is average is not getting playing time at one team, he leaves and joins a weaker Premier team to get the Playing time.

Yes, increasing the numbers would give you competition, but it is a lower level of soccer, with each team in the Premier league having 11 guys signed to play every weekend, if a player sits one game he is transfered off to another team.

Less teams would bring back the compitition for spots on Premier teams, and you would not have trouble getting 18 guys out to training if, there attendance is manditory for playing time.

I like the idea of more games, so perhaps keep the 14 Premier teams, but all in one pool. That would be 26 games, some would be played mid-week on Turf. Or in March, instead of sitting a month waiting for Provincials to start.

More teams moving up and down is good too, then a team that has a shite year pays for it, and is relegated.

Bring the Top Local leagues together would be a huge step to making Lower Mainland soccer what it once was.
When all the best players in the FVSL, PCSL, and VMSL, wanted to play in the 10 team VMSL Premier Division.

HOS

 

[BlazeArmy]

That makes sense but i can't believe it could ever happen.

The politics invloved and even the money a 200 team league would have is too much for people to handle.

How do you join the leagues together. It is a great idea but pretty unfeasible.

I'd be allfor it. Travel though would be tough. My Valley team folded because after 8 years guys were sick of traveling.
A 10am game in Chilliwack is great when you live in Tsawwassen
A 2:15pm game(standard start for Valley) wasn't much better because you got home after 6 even if you didn't go to the pub.
You would need to split the divisions I think anyway

It could work but were talking a lot of divisions in the league.

Would do think of this HOS

Premier Div 1 and 2 are geographiclly blind. 16 teams in each
Div 3 and lower has geographic distinctions (6 in each side, home and away versus those on you side and one game versus each team in other section for a total of 16 games)
Div 3 East and Div 3 West with the top 3 from each side playing each other for spots in amalgamted Div2 (1east vs 3west,etc.)
Div 4 and down play for spots in the regional sections above them. I know the travel doesn't seem like a lot bot travelling for over an hour every other week sucks, when the metro league travel is 40 minutes in worst case to North Van and most being only 20 min or so away

Make all the Cups open to both sides of the divisions and

Imperial cup for Premier 1, and 2
Pakenham for 3 and down

 

[BlazeArmy]

Premier 1 and 2 keep at 15 game seasons making every game all the more important
For the 48 teams in the Imperial cup have div 2 and div1 play a prliminary round giving you 32 teams for a round 1.

That would keep Schedules for Premier down to at most 19 if you made final for Cup.

If you want more games than that I don't know.

It's a good subljct to think about.

(I'm really bored here at work)

 

[Hands of Stone]

Top Teams Have to Travel

But yes for the Lower Divisions, a west and east or north and south Divisons would make sense.

Soccer may have to look at what Rugby did a few years back.

There was the Fraser Valley League, the Vancouver League and the Island League.

The Top teams from all of these joined to make a Super League, that has the best players and best clubs. I even think there is a Seattle team.

Each team is a Club system, with the Top team being Premier, and then Div. 1, Div. 2, and Div. 3 teams. There are also Over-35 teams and Jr. teams.

Players in each club can move up and down to play games. The Club practices together two nights a week, and on Thursday after the practice the boys go into the Club house grab a pint, and wait for the Rosters for the Weekend Matches.

Players playing and practicing hard get a shot with the Top team and vise/versa.

Yes, they have to travel a few weekends out of the year, but they are playing at the top level, they should expect some travel to play at that level and play the top teams.

Now I don't know if everyone is happy with the new system in the Rugby world of the lower mainland, but the system they are using looks like it could work.

HOS

 

[Teelay]

Rugby

My brother plays in the Premier Rugby League and he loves the new system. Granted, he has to travel to the Island for 2 games a year (maybe 3 for playoffs), but he thinks the system is way better as the calibre increased dramatically. On the flipside - imagine being a team in Victoria?

 

[Hands of Stone]

They travel anyways

Originally posted by Teelay
On the flipside - imagine being a team in Victoria?

It would only be the top teams from the Island, which would probably be 3 or 4 from the different Island Leagues.

These teams allready have to travel up the Island from Victoria and even go across to the Mainland to play Powel River.

Players that don't want to travel would still play in the local leagues, but it would let the best players that don't mind traveling a bit, to play at the top level in SouthWest B.C.

You could even cut down on travel expensives by playing two games when you travel to the Island, one game Sat. and one Sun.

It would help the exposure of the game here and on the Island. When ever I turn on VI news coverage of sports, you see highlights from their local Premier league playing out of the Stadium.

They get great media coverage, which would only help the game.
If only we could get that media coverage here.
That new soccer mag. is helping a bit, it looks really good, even though they have Vic as one of the reporters.

HOS

 

[knvb]

Sounds good HOS, but who pays for it all? I think the coast league teams need to raise in the area of $15 - $20 G's to run a small team for just 14 games.

 

[Hands of Stone]

We Don't Pay much Less to Run a Team in Winter

Well with more exposure for a Super League, you would hope that there would be more sponsorship.

Plus, the inscrease cost would weed out a few of the pretenders for the Super League.
Plus, the PCSL plays in expensive Stadiums, great if you can afford it, but why not just play on sum of the better fields that are not as expensive.
Big Clubs would have no problem, and a Club like Slurrey would just have to get the Womens team out working the Walley streets a few more nights a week

HOS

 

[Gomesy16]

This whole topic is getting way too complicated. Everyone can dream, but most of the proposals of merging leagues and huge super divisions is unfeasible and NEVER going to happen.

I think the most reasonable way to restructure would be as follows:

Drop the whole pool idea for each division. Who cares if there is a total of say 9 divisions?

Each division should have about 10 teams at the most. This would make each division play 18 games. You can't play more than 19 games in a season with all the potential Cup games. Mid-week games are a stupid idea! Not everyone is available to play mid-week. One game a week is enough.

So just to recap, there would be potentially 9 or more divisions. This can be done by seeding the teams. Each division would be stronger for this. Promotion and relegation can be done by moving the top/bottom 2 teams from each division and just a single team from the Premier division.

I think this is a way more realistic restructuring idea.

Anyone else?

 

[Jinky]

BC Rugby's Premier league had it's development drawbacks as well as it's successes. Not all clubs were capable of fielding a Premier quality team. What Premier quality players they had were soon snapped up (they were paid to play) by the wealthier clubs. This left many smaller clubs unable to field even a decent First Division side.

Scheduling then affected clubs finances. In the past, for example, SFU's Firsts Seconds and Thirds would play PoCoMo's three squads at Hume park one after the other (plus juniors) and then everyone would go to the Poke's clubhouse and socialize. The beer sales would pay for the clubhouse rent and many other expenses. The new Premier league completely screwed the schedule. One club could have up to Five teams playing at five different fields. Only the players involved in the last game of the day would patronize the home club's clubhouse. When a whole club is involved against another, the Thirds and Seconds will stick around to spare for and or support the other teams. As a result many clubs have suffered financialy.

I think reedr's proposal has a great deal of merit. It is absolutely correct to dispose of the Alphabet nonsense thereby eliminating the weak-side, tough-side arguments come promotion/relegation time every year.

It is also realistic where the size of the Premier is concerned. The vmsl board will not contract. This is proved by their staunch support of the CAT system. Their goal would seem to be greater production of suitable players for the numerous Premier spots rather than reducing that number of Premier spots to accomodate the supply of adequate talent.

I like the increased number of games. It's not even March and the season is over for many clubs. The increased number of games combined with the proposed Champions League would be great IMHO.

This system combined with the old Rugby system would be tremendous on developmental, financial and social levels.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

The quality suffers

Perhaps, but I guarantee you during the season that one or two of the last place teams will beat the top teams who are looking to win the league. Didn't Bolton just beat Man. United on the weekend? Surprisingly, I like this. I always thought it would be nice to go back to the 10 team league in all sections but this looks interesting. It certainly is creative, reedr. I would certainly vote yes because it would be great to play more teams in a season. 23 instead of 9 looks good and shows how important every game would be. Surely, there would be blowouts some weeks, but that would be no different than now. Hopefully, the league considers it.

Captain

 

[Teelay]

Premier League

One club could have up to Five teams playing at five different fields.

That was the drawback of the new system, but the quality of play increased substantially which is a good thing for the players. Under the old system, my brother didn't get paid, and under this system he effectively makes no $$$ (doesn't pay club dues is his payment). I know a few guys who get paid to play rugby now. So yes, the wealthier clubs have benfitted, but I guess the upside is a better product on the field?

With soccer, we already have this system where there is virtually no club format, so what do we have to lose by merging some of the top leagues in the province? (On a side note I know this won't be happenieng anytime soon - logistically this is just too difficult, but it's nice to dream).

 

[Jinky]

That was the drawback of the new system, but the quality of play increased substantially which is a good thing for the players.

At the very top perhaps, but all other divisions suffered greatly. I recall a number of Premier teams finding they were in way over their heads also.

This begs the question, what purpose does restructuring the league serve? Player development? Premier quality? Competion in all divisions?

Merging leagues is a non-starter. An Inter-Locking cup is a more reasonable idea.

 

[Teelay]

You're right - there were a number of teams that either folded or pretty much just disappeared from the picture, but there were others who flourished.

The VMSL system does need to be changed, especially getting rid of the A,B,C divisions. That makes no sense. All other changes would have to be carefully considered.

 

[Sage]

this reminds me.......

hey Regs,

whatever happened to the Champions League idea of yours?