New VMSL Divisional Structure (proposal)

reedr

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Calling all feedback...!!!

i have an idea for a new VMSL divsional structure that i'd like some feedback on. consider the proposal a sort of "working document" that we can all comment on and hopefully improve. to ME the changes make a lot of sense...but hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

view the proposal here:
http://www.privateinvestor.com/feb24_VMSL_NEW.htm


-reedr
 

Gurps

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New system

Wow...quite a proposal. But I don't think there is any way you could have a Premier Division with that many teams. It would take away from the quality of play. If anything, the Premier division should be contracted. That seems to be where most of the complaints are coming from. But an interesting proposal nonetheless.


GURPS:D
 

Teelay

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Opinion

I like your idea, but like Gurps think the Premier league is too big. There aren't enough quality soccer players to create a sense of equality in that league. If you have the premier division smaller and then have three other divisions under it (plus a "development" league you proposed), it would be more feasible.

I do agree that something has to be done though. The inequality between divisions and leagues is unacceptable in its current state and this would go a long way to alleviating that.
 

Gurps

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Re: Opinion

Originally posted by Teelay
If you have the premier division smaller and then have three other divisions under it (plus a "development" league you proposed), it would be more feasible.
I AGREE.
Premier.
Div 1
Div 2
Div 3
Reserve A
Reserve B
Top 4 move up. Bottom 4 move down. Except Premier. Only two go down. And two come up from Div 1.
No Div 1 A, B, etc.
No movement for Reserves.

GURPS:D
 

Gomesy16

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Pretty, but not going to happen

Wow, you sure must have put a lot of time into this. But there's no way that this system would work the way you have it structured right now.

The problem is :
Way too many games!

We've had a great winter in terms of weather and field availablility, however this is not the case normally. We would never get through your schedule with the season, Imperial Cup, and Provincials. We would have to play until June or July, or play week day games as well. Playing this much would lead to more injuries. Lets face it, we're ametures. Our bodies are not trained to handle the demands of training and playing as much as this system would demand on ourselves.

Also, as mentioned in prior posts, by adding more teams into the Premier Division, the quality of play would suffer. If you want to improve the quality of the division, you have to decrease the number of teams, thus reducing the number of players in that division, thus removing the "plumbers", or not so good players.

This systems looks great on paper, but in my opinion, will never work here.

Sorry, but thanks for bringing up an interesting topic.
 

Regs

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This is an excellent piece of work that reedr has obviously put some time and effort into producing, kudos to him!

I also have reservations about increasing the size of the Premier but at least this structure does away with the worst invention ever, the split sides :rolleyes:

The real eye-opener IMHO is the league cup proposals. Excellent stuff.

Cheers,

~Regs.
 

Regs

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Gomes,

I said the same thing initially to reedr regarding the amount of games. But why do we always start the season when we do currently? Is there a reason that the season could not start say the second week of August?

Doing so would give us that many more good games on quality pitches before the rains come. Irregardless if reedr's proposal is not looked at by the league seriously (which unfortunately, is more than likely :rolleyes: ), the current structure could benefit greatly with an earlier start and the playing standard would rise overall.

Cheers,

~Regs.
 

Gurps

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SEASON

Regs:
Just a question...would it be feasible to start the league in lets say May..run till July...take july off...and finish the rest in August Septemeber? Or some variation of this? Hence avoiding the rainy season?

Just a thought....
 

Sandman

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Regs,

Is there a reason that the season could not start say the second week of August?
I think several municipalities allocate fields to Softball and Baseball this time of year. As a result many fields won't even have post up.
 

Gurps

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Internet

I do like the idea of posting your roster on the Internet on the Thursday before. It helps get rid of the fishy business.:p
 

Regs

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Gurps,

As Sandman said, the availability of the fields is the concern throughout the summer. Moving the league to a summer schedule has been talked about every year that TTP has been around I think... try a search to see if there is anything from last year on it.

Sandman,

What are your thoughts on reedr's work here?

Anyone else?

Cheers,

~Regs.
 

Gomesy16

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Regs

I have no problem with starting the season earlier. My favorite time of the current season is the month of September. The fields are in good shape and the weather is usually great.

What is your take on adding teams into a "Super Division" as structured in the proposal? Don't you think that this would water down the already waterred down Premier division?

I've heard on a few occasions "lets get a VMSL team back representing BC at the Nationals." If we were to go with this proposal, the talent and level of play would be weaker than it is now. In my opinion, the only way to make the Premier division stronger, is to reduce the number of teams.

Agreed?

Although I love this topic, I honestly don't see the league reps making a drastic change to the league format as proposed here.
 

Regs

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Agreed on the size of the Premier but as I mentioned, it is a great start to getting rid on all the "side A,B,C" crap.

As for the league implementing this, well, of course the current executive probably wouldn't even listen...

Someone step up to the plate... anyone...

~RegslookingforJimmyHtostepinnow :eek:
 

Teelay

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Realignment

Agreed on the size of the Premier but as I mentioned, it is a great start to getting rid on all the "side A,B,C" crap.
I think that would be front and central in any realignment. The A, B, C divisions are silly and out of whack. I honestly could see reedr's proposal working with a smaller premier division, and I agree with Gurps as to the promotion numbers between each division. That would still give Premier the "elusiveness" it needs to remain top quality.

As for summer ball - I would welcome starting the season early August, but there would be a hell of a lot of guys away then. Noone would get too serious until September anyways.
 

Sandman

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Some general comments.

I think everyone agree's that change would be healthy. Even the brass at the VMSL realize this. However, changes can't be to drastic and too fast. In my opinion it should be a step by step approach.

-I really like the reserve/development idea
-I don't agree with a 24 team Premier Division. Can you imagine getting excited about an AC Milan/Binger's Army fixture...........just doesn't belong in the Premier Division. Besides, I thought Pigs would fly before RUFC would be in Premier;)
-I agree their should be a "super division" in Div 1 and Div 2, thus eliminating sides.
-More than 19 games is too much ie;fields, officiating, linsemen, fees.

For starters, it would be very feasible to simply join Div 1A with Div 1B, it would be VERY, VERY easy. Top two teams get promoted. This eliminates "easier side" debates. Maybe Firemen would be in Premier this year.

Sandman
 

djones

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I'd vote for it if...

If we want to change things up and come up with a dream scenerio the first thing that has to change is the time of season we play.

From what I understand, more and more municipalities are willing to listen to reasonable scenerios that would work with softball/baseball that would have their fields shut down in the winter when most of the damage is done. Investing in FieldTurf (lighting included) isn't always a viable option (residents voting against lighted fields/municipalities budgetted too tight) and indoor facilities running out.

Sandman,

From what I've heard, Richmond is FOR this idea! BTW: congrats on the promotion! :)


The change of season would definetely benefit youth development and as a result, in time, improve men's "football" as a whole in this province.

We could also play midweek games instead of training! :D

Another idea I would suggest is to have the FVSL and PCSL join. That may help bridge the gap of the top teams in Premier and the bottom teams. Why we have 3 different men's league in the Lower Mainland is beyond me. :(
 

Vinnie

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Interesting concept!!
Especially eliminating the groupings within the divisions.

The problem is : Too Many Games...
With addition of more and more turf fields, this would be a moot point.

Good job Djones
But whoever proposes this to the gestapo (sp) will just get ignored. Maybe it's time for a new regime in the VMSL head office:rolleyes:
 

reedr

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changes

looks good after all the changes you guys requested. now all we have to do is overthrow the current VMSL management :)

recent changes i have made:

the premier div. is now 18 teams (because you guys said); division 1 and 2 are still 24 teams; the Reserve and Development division is now three groups (A, B, and C) instead of an open division of 27 (saves games); 5 teams (at the bottom) need to be dissolved and the "slots" discontinued (saves games and evens things out)

Total games currently within the VMSL = 1792 (i think)
Total games needed in this proposal = 1842

net gain / loss = +50 games

how does it look now???

thanks for the continued feedback !!!


-reedr
 

BlazeArmy

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Good idea but i see a few problems.

I think we should go to this.

An 18 team Premier division.
You play everyone once. 9 home 8 away or vice-versa(luck of the draw) 2 drop down with 3rd from bottom team in playoff spot with 3rd from top of new division 1.

20 teams division 1- 3. Play everyone once, 10 and 9 split home and away

1st division
2 up with 3rd playoff
3 down

2nd division
3 up
3 down

3rd division
3 up

Reserve League

18 teams each Premier side gets 1 reserve team.

no promotion or relegation

some of the 'B' and 'C' teams aren't really reserve teams but just different side in same club.

You could play anyone in your club registered to a team beneath

Imperial Cup

Premier and Division 1 teams only 38 teams go
bottom 6 in div 1 as of X-mas break play a preliminary game

The "Whateveryouwannacallit" Cup

Div 2, 3

all but top 4 teams in div 3 play in first round
Div 2 join for second

Start play in 3rd week of August.

Reserve league Cup

Reserve teams only but have the FVSL CAT teams join in for this.

Seems simple to me. doesn't add that many extra games
 

Jimmy Holiday

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How can we get in

Why is every year the same guys running the Vmsl??

Are there any AGM meetings or do these guys just appoint whoever they want to run the show??Its like the CSA where the same guys get recycled and nothing ever changes?

This proposal is great but the Premier league would have way too many teams as stated by most....

I remember going out to Clinton(when I was much younger) on a Sunday afternoon watching the Firemen battle it out against quality teams week in and out...All the teams were very competitive and their was only 10 -12 teams in the premier back then...
 

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