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Myths of Canadian Soccer Hystory

Soccer Coach

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The argument that many people propose is that Canadian players and teams from the 1982 to 1994 era were vastly superior than the current squad.
The evidence to support this claim is the successful qualification to the 1986 World Cup and the near qualification to the 1994 World Cup.
It is further argued that the existence of NASL and CSL bolstered the position of Canada with respect to the other CONCACAF nations. It is argued that once the NASL and CSL disbanded; then Canadian soccer started a steady decline.
The conclusion that some people argue is that once we have our own domestic league; our teams and players will return to prominence in the CONCACAF region and will qualify to the World Cup.

There are four major inconsistencies with this line of reasoning.
1) The 1990 World Cup qualification.
People convenient ignore this qualification process. Canada played poorly and even did not make to the final round. Canada got eliminated by Guatemala. There was 1-0 loss in Guatemala City. Then in Vancouver, the Canadian team was trailing 2-0 for most of the game until it made an unlikely come back in the last 25 minutes which included a dubious penalty and a goalie error. However, Canada had an early exit.

2) The CSL was in operation during the 1990 Qualification process.
Most of the Canadian players were playing in the CSL, but they showed poorly in the 1990 qualifying games Thus, the domestic league did not help them to qualify for the world cup.

3) The 1970 to 1982 World Qualification process and the NASL.
Canada got eliminated in each of them. I do not include 1966 and 1962 because Canada decided not to participate during those events. On all of the four events Canada was not even a contestant, and in fact in many of them; Canada finishes on the last place. This is important because many Canadian players are playing in the NASL during that period.
For example, Bruce Wilson, played for the Vancouver Whitecaps from 1974 to 1977, the Chicago Sting in 1978 and 1979, the New York Cosmos in 1980, and the Toronto Blizzard from 1981 to 1984. He was a six-time all-star selection, including three first-team selections (Vancouver in '77, Chicago in '79, Toronto in '84).

We can not argue that Canadian players were not playing in professional leagues. They were and they were getting eliminated decisively.

4) The exaggerated near qualification to the 1994 World Cup.
Without getting into small details, FIFA reorganized the spots for each confederation. Canada would have been directly eliminated under previous allocations, but this time it was given play-offs with Oceania and Commebol. Chile had been banned. There was no expectation that a Concacaf team would beat Oceania team and then would beat a Commebol team. Argentina finished second in their group and then was sent to the play-offs.

There was simply no way that Canada could beat Australia and then Argentina with Maradona. The CSL once again did not help with this qualification process.

It is clear that these observations put doubt into the story of a consistently strong Canadian team propelled by the existence of domestic leagues.

If the story does not hold; then we need to look at alternative explanations.
Why Canada qualified in the 1986? How Canada qualified? Was anything different in 1986?

The answer to the later question is: yes. There were two significant differences.
The first difference is that Mexico was absent from the 1986 and 1990 qualification process. This helped Canada.
The second difference is Central America had major civil wars that affected their national teams. We might not be able to fully see the grasp of this since it is distant and not well documented here. However, it is well documented in Central America and Mexico. For example, Salvadorean players had to pay for their own uniforms, had to borrow balls from the opposing teams to do warm ups, their trips to games would take longer, games would be played in other neutral countries or simply cancelled; practices would be cut short due to security concerns; Key players would be cut from national teams if they would not ally with the military regimes.

The chaos of the region gave Canada the false sense of advancement. People think that Canada improved, but in reality Canadians were simply playing teams that were experiencing huge constraints.

I quote the goal keeper from El Salvador: "Cuando llegamos, resulta que todos los equipos llevaban regalos para los rivales, que una camisa, que una bandera y hasta un libro con la historia de su fútbol... Nosotros, por supuesto, no llevábamos ni pines, ni nada de nada... Entonces vi un pino y corté un trozo de madera del árbol y con una navaja le puse las letras de El Salvador. Eso les dimos".

"When we arrived to the 1982 World Cup, every team brought gifts, like shirts, flags, books about history of soccer... we came with nothing, not even shirts to give... thus, I saw a little bush. I cut a piece from it, and I put El Salvador and this we gave to them.

In summary, the weakening of Central American teams combined with the absence of Mexico provided better results for Canada.

The next issue to consider is the Qualification of the 1986 World Cup. How did it happen? Was it convincingly? Was Canada dictating the games?

The evidence suggests that this was not the case.
Canada won against Honduras with two corner kicks. Honduras played better and Randy Samuels literally saved a goal on the line.


Canada held Costa Rica to 1-1 draw after a goal with a long cross and a header.


Canada also beat Guatemala with a long ball from the keeper and another corner kick.


Essentially most of the World Cup 1986 campaign consisted of defending and then scoring goals in corner kicks, free kicks or long balls and crosses to the box. Nothing wrong with this in itself, the problem is that you can not keep qualyfing with this approach and principle. If you try this over and over. Eventually it will catch up to you as other teams learn to defend them better.

It is no surprise that Canada did not score a goal in the World Cup in 1986, and then got early elimination in 1990. It is simple a natural and logical consequence.

It is simply a myth that Canadian teams and players were dominating their counterpart players and teams in CONCACAF during the 1986 to 1994 era, or that we have gone backwards, or that the CSL or NSL helped Canada.

The problem is not the lack of a league (although it surely could help). The problem is the mentality about the game. The lack of ball control and technique. The emphasis on physicality over the developing of possession. Once this is fixed; the better results will follow.

I really hope that Canada one day makes it to the World Cup, but it will not happen with the current approach and mentality.
 

Regs

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It is simply a myth that Canadian teams and players were dominating their counterpart players and teams in CONCACAF during the 1986 to 1994 era, or that we have gone backwards, or that the CSL or NSL helped Canada.
It's a myth because you are the only one saying that :rolleyes:

In terms of continued development of the Canadian player, fcuk yes we have gone backwards without a professional domestic pro league.
 

Soccer Coach

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The point is that a professional league does not guarantee success in the qualification to the World Cup. The evidence is clear that the CSL did not help players qualify to the World Cup, and the NASL neither. The VAST majority of countries have professional soccer leagues and they do not produce quality players. Canada can build a professional soccer league and still do not qualify. In fact this is the more likely scenario.
The problem is the mentality and approach to the game that most Canadian coaches and players hold.
This is the crux of the problem and then the people that refuse to see this reality.
 

Regs

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Numbnuts,

this is an English language forum.

I highly suggest you speak it clearly in your posts.
 

Soccer Coach

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Mi querido tontuelo,
I am staring to understand the problem here. I can not SPEAK clearly in my posts. You want me that I WRITE clearly in the posts. There is a difference between writing and speaking. Just to let you know; speaking involves oral communication. This is written communication.

I will make it really simple. Canadian soccer has performed atrociously both with a league and without a league. The qualification to the World Cup in 1986 is was a matter of good fortune without Mexico and the political chaos in Central America.
The lack of access to a professional soccer league is not the problem. The problem is the mentality of the soccer fans (i.e. like yourself), most people in governing bodies, and most grassroot coaches and also some high level coaches, who have a very limited and rudimentary understanding of the game. Thus, they can not develop and nurture skilled and competitive players, nor they can manage winning teams.

We can create a soccer league and still do very poorly like most countries in the world.

Capisce, mi brutito?
 

Dude

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The lack of access to a professional soccer league is not the problem. The problem is the mentality of the soccer fans (i.e. like yourself), most people in governing bodies, and most grassroot coaches and also some high level coaches, who have a very limited and rudimentary understanding of the game. Thus, they can not develop and nurture skilled and competitive players, nor they can manage winning teams.

Wow.

How many local guys would drool at the opportunity to line up against this twat?

As for his main point...I don't believe that to be true at all, not even close. But, even if it were, how does a Nation overcome that overnight?

Impossible. There is no amount of imported coaching talent from any of his "Approved of" footballing nations that could correct this overnight.

But one thing can: Money. Need proof? U.S.A.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY worldwide will argue that the average player or coach in the US have an innate understanding of the game that Soccer Coach purports is necessary to have in order to be a WC Qualifier. Even Americans will not claim that point. But what they can claim is that they have come to understand and play the game, in their own style, based on more of an "Athletic" based model than what anyone would describe "Innate" or nurtured. They have thrown millions after millions at the challenge of going from a soccer never-was nation to a reasonable world power on the international scene. Millions into grassroots. Millions into recruitment. Billions into the '94 WC. Millions into the MLS. Reasonable, meaning, they qualify every year (exception being '94) on their own merit, beating countries who's footballing bloodlines run deep. It may be ugly American in every sense, but it has worked. We don't have to like it, but we can respect it, and, frankly, model after it.

@LION made, I think, the best post in all this, which was, we need to develop our own culture. The US has done this. It's gross, but it's their own culture. Lion's concept was most definitely based on having a Domestic Professional system, where young players growing up can look to OUR game and say, "Hey, I can do this and make a living". That pathway is non-existent right now. I mean, when I was a kid, it sucked knowing that there were so few and limited opportunities to pursue a professional career. Players like me are a dime a dozen out here. We had nowhere to go. What if we were born in the UK or other nations? My bet is, with our passion, dedication, and innate understanding of the game, maybe we could have made a career at some level. Maybe our better players out here, growing up in the right environment with support and opportunities, could have made it to the top. I firmly believe that.

Taking what the US has done, and blending in a bit of a hybrid development model with more focus on the technical element, I think would fast track our nation to WC Qualifying. YES, I think Soccer Coach has some good ideas. I don't discount that. But, without a domestic league, it will be impossible to foster that culture that Lion speaks of, and impossible to foster that ramped up internal competition Soccer Coach speaks of.

That, and I firmly believe that at every level, coaches should be rewarding players with ice cream. Score a free kick? Get an ice cream.

~Long live TTP.
 
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LION

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Simple as this. I have a couple boys.
The 4 year old loves soccer. I don't know why. ;)
I also love hockey and never got a chance to play it other then countless hours of roller hockey on the streets before kids had iPads.

I will give my son the opportunity at hockey, soccer etc. Whatever he likes.

Let's say he is great at both hockey and soccer. He will have to make a choice one day. One path is nicely groomed with the perfect path and vision to the end of the road. The other really doesn't have much of a path and sticks and branches are poking you in the eye when walking down that path.
I'm a soccer guy. But I think I would say to my son, go down the hockey path. It's set up better for yah son.

Soccer now loses a young stud to hockey.

There is thousands and thousands of boys that make this same decision in Canada here as we have nothing to offer our 14 year olds etc other then perhaps a local scholarship.

But with a light at the end of the path, thousands could or maybe would choose soccer and trying to go "local pro" In a sport they equally love.

Honestly, reading all this shite and learning more of the local game and how our local leaders of leagues don't want to work together wants me to walk away from it now and just turn in to a "hockey family".

Not that I want to push my kids to go pro all their life or something. But just knowing that that .0002 percent chance that if they are good, and love the game, that there is lots of paths and options in that sport for him. And I can watch games in a dry environment with my timmys. It's all dreamy really. Like commercials I've seen from being a kid. ;)

Nothing dreamy about soccer in this country. Or in BC I guess. Lol. fcuk some nights that we play and train in are down right aweful. I can see why it's an easy choice for kids to play fall/winter hockey over soccer. No?

It's an up stream battle and not looking like it will change anytime soon. It's sad.

Just takes that one special kid to choose soccer over hockey. Just one. Finding Neo (matrix) styles. Having a local pro league that kids have goals of making will help the Neos rise! Haha. Ok I'm losing myself again here.

I think soccer coach thinks he is Neo. And we are all Agents. He is stuck in the matrix. Don't let him out.
Ok i think I'm hung over from yesterday. ;)
 

Dude

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Soccer Coach is going to now claim "Censorship". I know you are reading this, and it's killing you not to reply, but you aren't being censored. That would entail Regs deleting your posts. You are being "suspended" from activities for acting like a cnut. Simple as that.
 

Ballbaby

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Don't want to incite Soccer Coach, but here I go anyway. For you to think we (Canadians) haven't considered all the facets you raised in your post is ridiculous. I can give you a counter argument to every issue you raise regrading the issues the Central American constraints. Canadian constraints existed then and have always existed and they are far more challenging in that they immersed in the varying culture of the Canadian people themselves. Canada is a developed country and I read today that it is considered to be the second best country in the world to live with. I often find myself conflicted with what it would take to advance the game of football knowing that so may societal needs seem more of a priority. I believe that Canadians must share the same perspective on sport like the rest of the world does. Sport enables a country to forge itself as one against the rest and display superiority. That is a basic human trait and need. To be blunt, sport is the civil way of fighting wars without casualties. Because football is the most recognized and accepted sport by the entire world, many of us Canadians would love to see Canada perform well on the world stage and be accepted in that regard. But we cannot dismiss many of the other areas where we surpass the rest of the world, specifically in the quality of life.

Ironically, it is this high quality of life that is the stumbling block to promote Canada as a soccer country. The era of 1986 had an inventory off offspring whose parents immigrated from old established countries. These immigrants wanted to make a better life for their children, but still provided perspective that money doesn't grow on trees, and to appreciate what you had. There was also an acceptance to allow the elite athletes in our midst to enjoy the limelight and subsidize them to play for their provinces and countries for free. Man did that change! The more organized our sport became, the more politically correct it became, and the growing sense of fairness and entitlement imbalanced everything. When your best players have to pay to play? Come on!!! How can you demand the most from an athlete when they are paying to play, and actually, paying your salary as a "professional" coach? The only way to counter this is to try and get everything out of them by selling them on a value system that will make them successful off the field as much as on the field to make it worth their while. We can get Canadians to change their thinking, and accept funding our elite, but it requires people in influential positions with ingenuity to do this. It cannot be perceived as stealing from other worthwhile societal initiatives. Canadians have to be convinced that football and sport are a lifestyle and a means to display our success as high level society to the rest of the world. I don't believe we have had the right people to present this case in the most influential places for quite some time.

There is an inventory of far better technical players today than 30 years ago. But they are not more competitive in the later and more pivotal years. Soccer Coach, I don't disagree with much of what you write, but I completely disagree that our players aren't technical enough. They actually are. However the environment, or lack thereof, when they leave youth soccer stalls our players. The 'easy life" they have learned to enjoy, although negated to some degree as impressionable youth by some good coaches, begins to unravel all progression they may have enjoyed. The next environment is poorly structured, non-existent,unchallenging. or unsustainable. Everything lost. So much for organized football.

The "yester-years" are not a myth. They mean something to me and give me a sound foundation to form my opinions.
 

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