MWSL hits an ALL-TIME low

Captain Shamrock

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Club Ireland is being forced to forfeit last Sunday's 4 - 0 win. I'm fuming a bit right now so I will post a little later tonight. This league HAS OFFICIALLY hit rock bottom, in terms of structure. Mr. Cormack reads this stuff, so I'd like to see his version of events. The shortened version is we clarified that two of our div. 3 players were going to play with our div. 2 team in the cup(cup bound) as we only had just enough bodies to field a team in the div. 2 cup.....we submitted a list of players for the cup competitions, just like we do in the Men's league. Mr. Cormack never responded to my questions regarding cup play. Therefore, I assume everything is fine. We play 4 cup games and are phoned the night before our next cup game, saying that the two players are ineligible. I will give more of this beauty a little later tonight.


Fcuking diabolical
 

Captain Shamrock

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So here are the details......

On January 14th(the day before the 'transfer' deadline), I sent an e-mail to the league president asking about cup play. Not being familiar with the women's league, we sent a list via e-mail to the league, stating which players would be playing in the div. 2 cup and div. 3 cup respectively. I asked if we needed to transfer players from one team to the other and if so, would we be allowed to use the same two players in the remaining div. 3 league games. The two players we assigned to the div. 2 team are very good defenders and strikers for that matter. We needed them to give our div. 2 team depth after losing one starter to pregnancy. I heard nothing back by phone or e-mail. So the list was in the league's hands and we figured they knew that we were bringing up the two players.........


The cup starts and we play the two players. The ref looks at the cards before the first game and there were no problems, DESPITE the fact two of the cards are CLEARLY labelled as DIVISION THREE. If div. 3 players weren't allowed at this time, surely we would have been informed by the ref? No, we win the game and go to week two. The next week, the same thing happens. Ref checks the cards and I even tell him that these are two div. 3 players who we signed up for cup play. Nothing happens. We win again and go to the last game. Same thing the following week. Now, we are into the single knockout stage against the New West Hyacks. Our two div. 3 players have not played for the div. 3 team in the cup, since we know players are limited to one team during cup. We stuff the Hyacks 4 - 0, even though we had 3 youth players and one sub.

I get a call on Tuesday and some plunker from Semi has been questioning our players. He states that he saw our two div. 3 players playing in the a div. 3 league game. Imagine that. I spent 25 minutes talking to Mr. Cormack and he assured me that this was to be dealt with and there was nothing wrong with the players. Also, this ass-clown from Semi claimed our two youth players weren't on the list. Mr. Cormack assured me that the players were on the list, so we move on......until tonight.....

I get a call that went something like this......

"Hi, Steve, we have a problem with two of your div. 2 players."

"What's the problem?"

"Amy Dueck and Samara Beatty are signed to your div. 3 team."

"Yes, Bob, they are the two players I told you would be playing with our div. 2 team in the cup, when I sent you the e-mail two months ago."

"I vaguely remember that e-mail. Let me try and find it. I'll call you back in 5 minutes."


So he calls back and tells me that we in fact do have these two players signed and they were in the list that was submitted. However, they were transferred to the div. 2 team. "That is why I asked you with my original e-mail, and I didn't hear back."

I am now told that we should not play the two players this weekend in any of the games. I said that is not fair and asked him what the league would do if we won our games this weekend. Does that mean the two girls would not be able to play any more cup games this season? He said that he didn't know and would have to see what would happen after the weekend. I insisted that this was going to cause more problems. He said he understood where I was coming from because there was obviously some sort of a commuication gap. So I was willing to play tomorrow with 10 players, without the two players. Then I was informed that he need to phone someone named Rob, who USED to be a member on the 'board' to get some advice.......The call comes about 30 minutes later and he informed that Rob thought we should default(forfeit) last Sunday's game against the Hyacks. I asked him what he would do if the other teams who we beat in the round-robin portion found out about our 'illegal' players. He said it wouldn't matter because it was too late for them. I asked why it wasn't too late for the Hyacks. Again, I received no answer. So I will be phoning the other 3 teams tomorrow to let them know about the situation. Hopefully they can find out why they wouldn't have a chance to go through.

I asked Mr. Cormack why NONE of the refs of the four games mentioned the div. 3 cards in the pile of div. 2 cards. He didn't have an answer. So I politely mentioned that I hoped that he would let teams know why were 'ousted' from the cup. It was a mistake made two months ago and it was an e-mail/call, which went unanswered. Now here is the worst of it.....I was informed that the two div. 3 players, who played with the div. 2 team in the cup(the reason why were 'ousted' from the cup) WERE ALLOWED TO PLAY ON SUNDAY IN THE DIV. 3 CUP. Are you fcuking kidding me? So players are asked to be cup bound for a reason,yet our two players, who we TOLD the league would be playing just for the div. 2 team during the cup, played in FOUR div. 2 cup games, and are now allowed to play in the div. 3 cup? Does anyone else see a contradiction in the rules? SOOOOOOO, we are now out of the div. 2 cup, despite scoring 14 goals for and giving up 1, and are allowed to play two 'illegal' players in our div. 3 cup game on Sunday. Bravedart, you really need to sort this cnut out in your club. Mr. Cormack wouldn't even give the name of the ass-wipe. So our div. 2 team has essentially finished its' season, with the exception of one last game against the Delta Speed. Our current record is 15 wins and 2 draws, giving up THREE goals in the process. Lord knows the New West Hyacks deserve to be playing in the cup game this weekend. But at least I know the league feels bad about their decision. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad: This is fcuking shoc-king. Sorry about the novel but I figured details were important here. Perhaps Glasgow Ghirl can give her side of events on Monday.


Hail! Hail!
 

SC

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You had me at forfeit. That's a shitty situation Cappy. I'm sure you'll be black listed, due to your honesty of the situation :rolleyes:

Why can't teams just battle it on the field? Leave the backstabbing outta it :mad:

Rob/Cormack, give your head a shake...
 

Keeper

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Too bad, so sad, bye-bye.

Now, while I'm not one to disagree with the fact that the MWSL is the sh!ts, I have to suggest that your management skills of the affair was a bit poor.
On January 14th(the day before the 'transfer' deadline), I sent an e-mail to the league president asking about cup play. Not being familiar with the women's league, we sent a list via e-mail to the league, stating which players would be playing in the div. 2 cup and div. 3 cup respectively.
"Not being familiar with the women's league", you thought you could send a simple email only one day prior to the deadline and expect prompt response? Next time, I'd suggest striking up some communication to clarify the transfer guidelines well in advance so that you could hash things out with enough time to spare before the deadline; one might have expected some paperwork to be done. Hell, I'm surprised you just didn't leave a message on their answering machine and consider it fait d'complete.

Granted, you've been screwed in this matter (more so, your players) and I sympathize with your situation, but really . . . knowing all the complaints about the league on this website already, how could you possibly assume a single (unanswered) email sent the day before the deadline would suffice?

Unfortunate, but I'm not surprised in the slightest.
 

Captain Shamrock

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Actually, Keeper, I spoke with Mr. Cormack at the beginning of December regarding this issue. Everything was fine at that point regarding the issue, so I just wanted to double check before me missed the chance on the deadline. This was not something that was decided the night before. I have better managerial skills than that, but thanks for trying. You really are a fcuking cnut when it comes down to it. Your answering machine comment was well thought out. As for your paper work comment, team lists were sent to him with our cup rosters. Was that difficult to understand? I guess that is what happens when the teacher is learning from the grade 4 students. Get a grip and before you start preaching to me about doing things right, fcuk off.
 

Yoda

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Mrs. Yoda mentioned that there may be a rule that says players must play at least 2 regular season games with your team for them to be able to play cup with you. Might want to check that out. Possibly the cause of the complaint.

Other thant that, it's the usual crap of the MWSL.
Tough luck man.
 

Captain Shamrock

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Yoda said:
Mrs. Yoda mentioned that there may be a rule that says players must play at least 2 regular season games with your team for them to be able to play cup with you. Might want to check that out. Possibly the cause of the complaint.

Other thant that, it's the usual crap of the MWSL.
Tough luck man.

I wasn't aware of that, Yoda, if it is in fact a rule. Now, I'm even more confused after looking at the schedule for this week.....


Quarter Finals DATE/TIME LOCATION SCORE
H: Richmond Rumble
V: Kerrisdale Spurs Mar 7, 2004
10:00am Honda
Game K

H: Burnaby Candians Storm
V: R.C. Rhythm Mar 7, 2004
10:00am Confederation Oval
Game I

H: W. Vancouver Storm
V: Shamrock Rovers Mar 7, 2004
10:00am Ambleside D - Artificial Turf
Game L- field change

H: Club Ireland A
V: Dzunakwa Mar 13, 2004
1:00pm McMath #1
Game J-Saturday - game rescheduled


WTF? No one has contacted us, if this is in fact the scenario. My guess is that it is just a mistake.......
 

Fat Bastard

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As a former Director - and the guy who wrote much of the operating rules (insert 'FB is a f*cking cnut" here), let me wade in on the issue.

The operating rules (found on the website) state that Intra-Club Permits may only be used in League play (the MWSL continues to incorrectly call them 'inter-club' but what the hell it's only the english language, but I digress).

So, the Captain did break a rule? Yes. But what baffles me is that Mr. Cormack didn't step in. What Captain should have been told was to transfer the players in question to his div2 side for the remainder of the season and Cup play. True, they would not have been available to the div3 team for the rest of the year, but frankly that's life in the MWSL - there is no VMSL-like CAT system.

So, wrong no.1 is that Captain was misled, receiving incorrect advice (or none as the case may be), and now his team and players are punished for a league mistake. Further, team lists are checked every week. This did not come out until the cnut at Semi said something. So obviously the league didn't think this was an issue until the squeaky wheel squawked.

This brings up wrong no.2. Hyacks didn't protest. The team has but 48 hours to file a protest. Third-parties cannot file protests. The MWSL should read their own constitution. They do have one - I have a copy. True enough, they violate more than a handful of sections (re. financial statements :mad: ), but protests guidelines are clearly defined. This happened to Burnaby Canadians last year - when their premier A team used a div.1 player from Kerrisdale against Poco. Poco coach didn't mind and didn't protest. League actually signed off on permits ahead of time, albeit that's not required. Yet the league took the three points anyhow for playing ineligible player.

Bottom line, two wrongs don't make a right.

The Captain's team should be allowed to continue in Cup, but the two players in question should be ineligible from this point forward for the div2 cup. (Whether or not they should remain cup-tied would honestly be a matter of debate, but I would argue not.)

Also, I do find it disturbing that Mr.Cormack continues to go to Mr.Gibson for advice. Nothing against the long-standing former league president, but 'past-president' is not a constitutionally-recognized board position. If Mr.Gibson want to have a say in how the league is run, then he should get back on the board. And Mr.Cormack should be discussing these issues with his directors - the elected ones.

But, this is life in the MWSL. It's a large league - biggest in Western Canada I think. And it's operated as efficiently as the US government. (Can we say 'gridlock'?) But having been there... you are going to have hiccups along the way, it is inevitable. But what they do after those hiccups is how we can measure the performance of this Board.

FB out. :D

Oh yeah... there is no rule in the constitution or the by-laws stipulating having to have played any number of games to be eligible for Cup. You just have to be signed or transferred seven days in advance of the Cup game in question.
 

Yoda

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Interesting info FB.
I have a question.
IF the 2 players in question are signed to the Div 2 team, then shouldn't the Div 2 cup games stand and the Div 3 games they played in be forfeited?
I would think that, as Captain mentioned, he signed the 2 players so they would be fine to play for his team but now be ineligable for the Div 3 games. NO?
 

Captain Shamrock

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Thanks for the information, Fat Bastard. I appreciate your honesty.


Yoda, the players are actually signed for the div. 3 team. We put them on the div. 2 cup roster, so they would just play in the div. 2 cup. I didn't realise we had to actually 'transfer' them to our other team, which would have hurt our div. 3 team in the remaining league games. If I knew the rule, as I stated before, I would have 'transferred' two players who were not as strong as the other two. Anway, thanks for the input lads.

As for the two players, they should not be allowed to play in div. 2 next week, if in fact we are playing next week. The question is......should they be allowed to play in div. 3, since that is the team they are signed with? Mr. Cormack told me on Friday, that we could definitely play them tomorrow, so we will. As for the div. 2 game, if we play, then we will be a very depleted team anyway, so we would struggle to get a result, which would make the league happy. Let's see what happens. Hopefully, I'll hear something soon. It could be worse. I could be a Hun. Thanks for coming out.

Can you see a happy Hun? Noooooooooooooo Nooooooooooo

Hail! Hail!
 

Spazz

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The whole deal simply sucks ass!

Brutal! Yes it sucks that we made an error in transferring players but why punish the whole damn team for an honest mistake that Cormack never bothered to correct. It seems to have been missed by him, missed by refs but not by some arsehole who has nothing better to do than dig up shite on us! WTF?

And I honestly think we had a good chance on winning that cup this year.... so much for that!

And above all, that Semi guy's got balls showing up at our Div 3 teams game and shooting his fat mouth off to the ref asking him to check our cards again! Does he NOT have anything better to do like maybe start coaching some of his Semiahmoo teams that we keep beating??
BEAT IT BUDDY!
 

Fat Bastard

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Re: SEMI-man

Hey BD! Who is this guy? Send me an email if you don't want to plaster his name for all the world to see.

For what its worth... the guy should understand that he is a RECREATIONAL soccer coach - not Sir Alec - and that the game (especially at that level) should be decided on the park by the ladies who pay good money for the right to play on Sundays.

Get a life dude.

PS... FBmeansnooffensebythe"atthatlevel"remark :)
 

Spazz

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Fb

None taken from me!!
I would've been more than happy to win the Div 2 cup and be promoted to Div 1 next year....
 

glasgow ghirl

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I am absolutely shocked and appauled at the way this league is being run. I have played in this league for 13yrs now and I have never seen something like this. And the worst of it is no matter how much this league or Bob Cormack pisses me or any team off ... he hold the cards. We don't have somewhere else to play .. we don't have a Fraser Valley league or inter city teams , so just bend over ladies and take it.

First off, Yes we made a mistake in not actually transfering these two players to our Div 2 team but what I don't understand is we never tried to hide it. I sent Bob Cormack an email with my two team lists, and explained to him what out team was doing. Is it our fault the PRESIDENT of the league is not keeping up on his emails....all over the site it tells us to email and has his email address posted.
So if I stand correct, the President got caught not keeping up on his duties by a third party member and now our team who has one of the best records across the board is going to be punished for an honest mistake.BULLSH*T.

Bob tried to tell me they don't have time to check every team list that comes through the office , Fair enough. BUT isn't that why we have Ref's. Tell me how we got this past four different refs in cup play ... OBVIOUSLY THE RULES AREN'T ALL THAT CLEAR FOR INTER CLUB TEAMS. Not one ref questioned why two of our cards had bright orange 3's and not mustard yellow 2's on them. Not only that but these two particular players also have scored a goal a game each .. and that too was recored. So please do tell me why he thinks we were trying to pull a fast one???????

I too strongly disagree with Bob turning to Mr Gibson for advise ... how did you get to be president when you can't make a decision on your own, and when you do finally make a decsion you still don't have all the facts ... where were your fellow board members on this one????

Further more , the div 2 draw for Cup was a shambles to begin with. We had teams dropping out of Cup because why???? Were they punished ??? We had the draw changed on us HOW MANY TIMES ? we had two back to back Saturday nite phone calls to change our 10am Sunday games and did we complain ... NO. Perhaps a good look into this league and its board members would benefit all.

This third party protest is an interesting point ... I will follow up on that.


SO to you MR SEMIAHMOO ... thanks for your support at all our games, perhaps you could teach your team a thing or two now that you've seen how the game can be played. You have nothing on the pride of Club Ireland.

Hail Hail
Glasgow Ghirl
 

Captain Shamrock

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After thinking about the events of this past week, I've decided to accept things and move on. We made a mistake(certainly not on purpose) and should be -'punished' accordingly. We can't do anything about now except move on. I think I understand how much work goes into running a league and some things get missed along the way. Perhaps my e-mails/phone calls weren't clear enough and were consequently left unattended? Either way, I feel bad for all of our players involved, especially the players who don't get to play in the cup. I do understand the league had to make a decision, and Mr. Cormack did ask other people involved, to try and get an unbiased response, especially with Mr. Semi following us around for the last month. SuPERVERTigo. However, it has been a GREAT season for Club Ireland, despite this minor setback. As I have stated, we have won 15 games and tied 2, only giving up 3 goals along the way. We still have a slim chance at promotion, if Kerrisdale manages a draw in the next two games against Shamrock Rovers and most importantly, our football has become quite 'sexy' at times.....:) So to the div. 2 team, congrats on a fantastic year. To the div. 3 team, let's try and finish off the year in style. A 'double' would be a great start. Hail! Hail!

Cheers.


Captain
 

Fat Bastard

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Somone posted a link to Glasgow Ghirl's recent post on the MWSL Bulletin Board. It has been removed from the Bulletin Board - and according to my computer, the Add/Edit feature on the MWSL Bulletin Board is offline. Coincidence?

Someone may have ruffled a few feathers. :p
(Even with the Captain's 'apology'.)
 

glasgow ghirl

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Good ... I'm glad someone did. I hope that it got a little attention before being yanked off there too!
Other teams in the league have a right to know what's going on , and you never know what may come out against the league now!

Touche, to who sent the link!!!!

GG
 

Spazz

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Maybe it was a marketing gimic to draw more people to TTP??!! ha ha ha

Too bad it's gone.... maybe another team could have learned from our mistake and could prevent being disqualified in the future....

I just wanna play soccer!

Unhappy Spazz
 

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