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John Herdman Appointed Canada MNT Coach
- Thread starter dezza
- Start date
So they were gonna lose him from the women’s program regardless of whether he went back to England or the CDN men’s team?
Why not do the rational thing and leave Zambrano in the job and go head hunting. If he wins out during that process, then so be it. There really wasn’t anyone better anywhere in the world but a coach in your own backyard coaching your women’s team? If he took over the ENG women’s team, could you see the FA hiring him to their men’s national team after Southgate gets the can? That would be extreme for even the Americans to do that even after their latest failures.
Me thinks that CSA wanted to get more bang for their buck having him do multiple jobs (oversee/coordinate all men’s teams) including the MNT that Zambrano, like 99% of national team managers, don’t have to do. If they really wanted someone who has experience doing multiple jobs with world class notoriety and success, they should have gone all out and head hunted Uruguay’s Óscar Tabárez. He oversees Uruguay’s under-15, -18, -20 and the senior team. Big bucks, that’s for sure.
Why not do the rational thing and leave Zambrano in the job and go head hunting. If he wins out during that process, then so be it. There really wasn’t anyone better anywhere in the world but a coach in your own backyard coaching your women’s team? If he took over the ENG women’s team, could you see the FA hiring him to their men’s national team after Southgate gets the can? That would be extreme for even the Americans to do that even after their latest failures.
Me thinks that CSA wanted to get more bang for their buck having him do multiple jobs (oversee/coordinate all men’s teams) including the MNT that Zambrano, like 99% of national team managers, don’t have to do. If they really wanted someone who has experience doing multiple jobs with world class notoriety and success, they should have gone all out and head hunted Uruguay’s Óscar Tabárez. He oversees Uruguay’s under-15, -18, -20 and the senior team. Big bucks, that’s for sure.
Canucks4Ever
Well-Known Member
I would describe my outlook as skeptical at best...
I like Herdman and have met him personally on a few occasions. Given my conversations with him, I am surprised by this move, though I suppose everybody needs a new challenge eventually. I remember him being asked by the media long before Zambrano was hired, when the CSA hired Floro and after John had success with the women at the Olympics, about if he was planning on taking over the men's program and he basically laughed at the question. He knew, as we all do, that it is a ridiculous idea in any developed footballing culture given that the two games, while played with the same rules, are so vastly different. While he had no ambition at the time, I cannot help but wonder if that didn't plant a seed in his mind. After continuing his success with the WNT the media basically began to anoint him "God of Soccer, in Canada." He was fawned over for media engagements, providing analysis on the World Cup in Rio and making appearances on game shows etc. He bills out at ridiculous dollar amounts for speaking engagements, purportedly making more at that than the CSA pays him, and was hired for consulting working with the Canucks among others. Somewhere along the way, it would seem that it clearly dawned on this working class football man from Tyneside that he had stumbled into the perfect storm that he surely never even could have imagined when he first left England to coach women's football in New Zealand. Truly, this could only happen in Canada.
CSA are so wrapped up in their development pathway BS that they are willing to buy what Herdman is selling based on his results with establishing the women's program. I, personally, was very impressed with what Zambrano accomplished in a small sample size with the MNT and was keen to see where he was headed with the program. However, I can also see the side that he was from a traditional/developed football culture and building an entire development program from the grassroots up might not have fit with his philosophy. I can buy the idea that he was not going to get on board with how CSA wanted things to look if he felt that his ideas were better and that the OSAs and BC Soccers of the world would need to fall in line with him, not the other way around. Do I think he was a better coach for the MNT than Herdman, yes. Do I think he would have built a better National Development program than Herdman, maybe not. So now I can see where CSA might be coming from. The better question, though, is: Do I think we need a "National Development Program" in the mold of the CSA's "EXCEL" vision? That I'm not sold on.
Canada Soccer is though and I have to think the idea is to get Herdman working with the u16s and u18s building towards 2026. John has been given credited for his psychological approach to coaching, so I will be interested to see how that plays out with the men. Also you are dealing with professionals who are focused on advancing their club careers as opposed to on the women's side when playing for the national team really is the pinnacle of your career. Maybe if he gets the philosophy into the younger kids the program will in fact blossom into what the CSA envisions. One member of the current WNT staff that I assume will be coming with Herdman is Jason DeVos as, having played for the MNT, he can at least add that hands on credibility to the program. I'll be pulling for John and the program, obviously, but he will have to win me over just as it would seem he needs to win over most of the informed soccer community if the initial reaction to the announcement is any indication. Certainly he is in for a psychological battle of his own, as his every move will be questioned and scrutinized like never before. I wish him luck, I think he'll need it.
I like Herdman and have met him personally on a few occasions. Given my conversations with him, I am surprised by this move, though I suppose everybody needs a new challenge eventually. I remember him being asked by the media long before Zambrano was hired, when the CSA hired Floro and after John had success with the women at the Olympics, about if he was planning on taking over the men's program and he basically laughed at the question. He knew, as we all do, that it is a ridiculous idea in any developed footballing culture given that the two games, while played with the same rules, are so vastly different. While he had no ambition at the time, I cannot help but wonder if that didn't plant a seed in his mind. After continuing his success with the WNT the media basically began to anoint him "God of Soccer, in Canada." He was fawned over for media engagements, providing analysis on the World Cup in Rio and making appearances on game shows etc. He bills out at ridiculous dollar amounts for speaking engagements, purportedly making more at that than the CSA pays him, and was hired for consulting working with the Canucks among others. Somewhere along the way, it would seem that it clearly dawned on this working class football man from Tyneside that he had stumbled into the perfect storm that he surely never even could have imagined when he first left England to coach women's football in New Zealand. Truly, this could only happen in Canada.
CSA are so wrapped up in their development pathway BS that they are willing to buy what Herdman is selling based on his results with establishing the women's program. I, personally, was very impressed with what Zambrano accomplished in a small sample size with the MNT and was keen to see where he was headed with the program. However, I can also see the side that he was from a traditional/developed football culture and building an entire development program from the grassroots up might not have fit with his philosophy. I can buy the idea that he was not going to get on board with how CSA wanted things to look if he felt that his ideas were better and that the OSAs and BC Soccers of the world would need to fall in line with him, not the other way around. Do I think he was a better coach for the MNT than Herdman, yes. Do I think he would have built a better National Development program than Herdman, maybe not. So now I can see where CSA might be coming from. The better question, though, is: Do I think we need a "National Development Program" in the mold of the CSA's "EXCEL" vision? That I'm not sold on.
Canada Soccer is though and I have to think the idea is to get Herdman working with the u16s and u18s building towards 2026. John has been given credited for his psychological approach to coaching, so I will be interested to see how that plays out with the men. Also you are dealing with professionals who are focused on advancing their club careers as opposed to on the women's side when playing for the national team really is the pinnacle of your career. Maybe if he gets the philosophy into the younger kids the program will in fact blossom into what the CSA envisions. One member of the current WNT staff that I assume will be coming with Herdman is Jason DeVos as, having played for the MNT, he can at least add that hands on credibility to the program. I'll be pulling for John and the program, obviously, but he will have to win me over just as it would seem he needs to win over most of the informed soccer community if the initial reaction to the announcement is any indication. Certainly he is in for a psychological battle of his own, as his every move will be questioned and scrutinized like never before. I wish him luck, I think he'll need it.
