Discipline and Suspensions

[Knees United]

You sure you went to SFU?
KNVB.......please do not be envious of Bronco's higher education. You should be proud that you sell freezers for a living.

I was wondering, at the end of each week do you get to keep your Punch Card?

Go Blue Collars......ya for Unions!!!!!

 

[Jinky]

KNVB,

You own a dictionary?

 

[knvb]

I use it to level up my desk leg.

 

[Guinness]

Dictionary

......and I always thought it was to confuse your missus???I guess it is useful after all...

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Clayton Dobbin pushed a guy when we played Columbus after he just lumped one of our players for trying to waste a bit of time in the corner and he got a straight red from Rene.

First of all, the guy wasting time in the corner deserved to be clattered. That is one part of the game I HATE with a passion. Hump the ball up the field or into the stands but don't play with it in the corner. You're just setting yourself up for a hatchet job.

As for the suspensions, they have been harsh, BUT a lot of the suspensions have to do with a player's previous record. Gord MacIntyre got a red in our second to last game(Imperial Cup I think) for a second yellow. I believe Walks was reffing(he screwed up on one offside goal, which cost us the game ) and Gordy got a nice 4 game suspension. I'm sure the report Walks put in wasn't bad because there was nothing said after the red. But because of his past, he was given an extra couple of games. Also, if a player doesn't show up for his hearing, they usually tack at least one more game on.

BTW, KNVB, use your dictionary to look up repore and let me know what it means. Also, that player who was wasting time in the corner should have been kicked harder.


It's all about angles, all about angles.


Captain

 

[Aves]

Re: VMSL Discipline

Originally posted by Referee
Referees are there to do a job - which is apply the FIFA Laws. Referees do not see a penny from the fines imposed by the league; nor do we "suggest" suspensions/fines.

A yellow card in the FIFA Laws is a yellow card in an amateur match in Vancouver and a professional match in English Premier.

If you feel a card issued by a referee is too harsh, it is not. If you were on the receiving end of a foul (push/strike), I guarantee that player and his/her teammate would be lobbying the referee for a public hanging. Meanwhile, the player and the team that committed that foul would lobby to the referee that he/she "barely touched him/her". This all sounds too familiar at the local level. Now what should a neutral referee do???

Referees have been getting shunned the last few years, not only in VMSL. The referees in most leagues are instructed to issue red and yellow cards in accordance to the FIFA Laws. A red card for striking an opponent in Vancouver is the same as a red card for striking an opponent in Manchester. All leagues and referees abide by the FIFA Laws. So should the players.

What a load of pompous crap.

"If you feel a card issued by a ref is too harsh, it is not"
Is this by God's decree or just according to the arrogant referee society? How dare any player have an opinion or dare to question the all knowing wisdom of the mighty referee.

We all know reffing is a tough job that requires having the balls to stand in the middle and the common sense to use your powers of discretion.
"What should a neutral ref do?"
How about use your common sense to sort out the minor push / scuffle from the violent conduct that is an attempt to injure?
Should a teacher send every kid to the office who has a pushing match because the school has a zero tolerance policy on violence?
Life is not black and white and neither is soccer.
Ref's who look to establish a rapport with players actually reduce the frustration level which can lead to verbal and physical incidents in a match.
I applaud all those refs who make an attempt to do this instead of preaching about upholding the laws of FIFA.

The discipline boards and refs have to sort out the yahoos to make the game respectable and safe, but let's not get too carried away with this " I'm a FIFA ref and I'm going to call everything like they do on TV."

I am not on here to attack referees, because as I said it is a tough job, and they deserve our respect, but this holier than thou preaching by "The Referee" is a bit much for this player to take...at least I'm not listening to him on the field.

 

[trece verde]

Gaaaahhhh.....

I promised myself that I wouldn't write about stuff like this; another broken promise down the tubes.....

Aves, be gentle on "The Referee." I'm sure this individual paid a fair share of cash and sweat equity to go out and get that nice BCSRA crest and is proud to be a part of a noble tradition; and doesn't deserve to have such idealistic statements shot down like barrage balloons by cynical old bastards like you and me. (I don't think this statement should really need a smiley - if it does, gentle readers, go ask your Mum for one)...

After having sat through too many disciplinary hearings as a board member (and apologizing for this being a generic statement instead of league-specific), I have one thing to say about the process: the job sucks. I've had to give year-long suspensions to friends because of their actions on the pitch (there goes a season because of a moment of stupidity); one has decided not to speak to me again as a result. Personally, I have a hard time dealing with some of the situations I've come across, and so would anybody with half a conscience.

The problem is this: in one of these hearings, there are actually 4 sides to the story.

1) your side
2) the other team's side
3) the ref's side
4) reality.

How many times do I get to hear #4? Not very frequently, unless the incident happened at a game I was at. Even then, I frequently have to second-guess myself. The issue goes like this: Ref A files a report stating that he gave Player B a card for offence C. B disputes C, saying that A needs a seeing-eye dog. A soundly reaffirms C, saying that B has impugned his honour and brought the game into disrepute. Both turn and ask me "who do you believe?"

Right now we have to deal with a situation where a red card was given for a player's second yellow. The player has appealed, stating that there was never a first card. The ref's report has no details other than names, goals and cards given. What do we do? First we have to go back to the ref and coerce him into giving us some more details to go on. Next, we go to the opposing team and ask if anybody can even remember a first card incident occurring. Then we have to sort out the resultant mess....

The point is, it's not just the players that make this process the nightmare it is. Anybody who has had to sift through referees' reports at the nightmare edge of illiteracy trying to find a scrap of evidence that will either prove or disprove a players' contention will know what I mean. The Referee, I'm not sure how many times you've been a part of this process, but even you will have to admit that a report without proper detail doesn't help the process.

I have to agree with Aves. Referees need to exercise the Rule of Common Sense much more frequently at our levels than they do at Highbury or the San Siro. We don't get pristine perfect pitches where players can't get caught in the mud and go down like a ton of bricks without being touched. You don't have neutral linesmen to get objective opinions about stuff you may not have caught; don't alienate those who are actually willing to pick up a flag and help you out. We're not saying that you need to be everybody's friend; John V has been trying that for years, and it doesn't get him any respect.

Do tougher fines or suspensions act as a deterrant? In my experience, no. Players who are pissed off over a situation that to their mindset is inequitable are going to do stupid things no matter what the deterrants are. Think "heat of the moment..."

Qualifying VMSL-slagging content line:

Of course, being as it's WA and the VMSL, I'm completely cynical of their motivation; especially since there's no more peelers at the NBI. Where do they go now?

Beers (I need a few after getting that out of my system)

Stew

 

[kurgan]

2 thumbs up.

Extremely well said Stew.

 

[fuzzy]

I don't understand why we are protecting referrees WAY more than players. Guys getting reds for studs up tackles or other reckless acts that can actually snap an oppenents leg should be getting more games than the guy that insulted the ref. All other things being equal.