Bob Birarda done as Womens Whitecaps/ CSA Womens U-20 Gaffer

[mtkb]

But should it be normal? I mean I know what you said explaining and that makes sense, but really... there should/must be a better way? If disclosure is an issue, can't the judge rattle some cages at least?

Yes, but the only real recourse is to stay the proceedings if it takes too long to get to trial - which I'm sure no one looking for "justice" wants. If the disclosure is known to exist, the court can order that it be provided by x date.

The tricky thing is that there can be scraps over the complainant's counselling or medical records (third party records which the issue of whether they have to be disclosed or not has seen much judicial ink spilled over). You can also have complainants indicating that person x y or z was present for something, or that other people gave statements to whoever BB was working for, and those statements have either gone missing or the employer is saying FU get a warrant because they're worried about potential civil ramifications down the road.

It used to be that you could set the matter for a preliminary hearing and use it as a tool to flesh out what additional evidence or witnesses needed to be located prior to trial. But - thanks JWR - the feds have mostly deleted the preliminary inquiry from the criminal code. One of the consequences that those of us who run trials - not JWR - predicted was that it would cause disclosure issues.

You're also talking about tracking down witnesses from decades ago. The main complainant may want this dug up but the others may not. The police may genuinely be having trouble getting statements, but as long as they're working on that I wouldn't feel comfortable setting trial dates, making admissions, deciding which witnesses would be necessary and what the strategy would be at trial, etc.

To defend someone well you have to understand that it's a 3D game of chess at all times, and one move or development can change the approach to the entire board. They'll be looking to put him in jail if he's found guilty - he's entitled to know the case against him so that he can mount a defense if he so chooses...

 

[cside17]

Former Whitecaps, Canada Soccer youth coach Bob Birarda pleads guilty to sex charges | Globalnews.ca

Bob Birarda entered guilty pleas to three counts of sexual assault and one count of sexual touching during a video appearance at B.C. Provincial Court on Tuesday.

globalnews.ca

 

[Spankmemanky]

Former Whitecaps, Canada Soccer youth coach Bob Birarda pleads guilty to sex charges | Globalnews.ca

Bob Birarda entered guilty pleas to three counts of sexual assault and one count of sexual touching during a video appearance at B.C. Provincial Court on Tuesday.

globalnews.ca

Just demonstrates how useless BCSA/CSA is in investigating or protecting anyone

 

[mtkb]

Just demonstrates how useless BCSA/CSA is in investigating or protecting anyone

I can't believe I'm defending either organization, but in fairness they don't have the same investigative powers that the police do.

What will be interesting about this is whether or not there is a sentencing deal in place. Sometimes part of the plea negotiation is that in exchange for x pleas, the Crown and defense agree on a particular sentence - to be approved of by the sentencing judge. Other times, there is no agreement and it's a contested sentencing. Still other times they'll order pre-sentence reports - in this case that would include a risk assessment for further sexual offending, and/or a psychological profile - and once those reports come in the sentencing positions of the parties get crystallized - maybe with an agreement, maybe not.

This is all historical stuff, so if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on there being an agreement that he receive a conditional sentence - which is jail served in the community. I wouldn't put much money on it because I have no direct knowledge of any more details than what the general public knows, but with a plea that's what I smell...

 

[Spankmemanky]

I can't believe I'm defending either organization, but in fairness they don't have the same investigative powers that the police do.

What will be interesting about this is whether or not there is a sentencing deal in place. Sometimes part of the plea negotiation is that in exchange for x pleas, the Crown and defense agree on a particular sentence - to be approved of by the sentencing judge. Other times, there is no agreement and it's a contested sentencing. Still other times they'll order pre-sentence reports - in this case that would include a risk assessment for further sexual offending, and/or a psychological profile - and once those reports come in the sentencing positions of the parties get crystallized - maybe with an agreement, maybe not.

This is all historical stuff, so if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on there being an agreement that he receive a conditional sentence - which is jail served in the community. I wouldn't put much money on it because I have no direct knowledge of any more details than what the general public knows, but with a plea that's what I smell...

You don’t think if the WC/CSA//BCSA would have done their duty in 2008 that the RCMP would have gotten involved?
The 4 WC exec. And Vic montagliani should be publicly outed for their blind mice routine

 

[mtkb]

You don’t think if the WC/CSA//BCSA would have done their duty in 2008 that the RCMP would have gotten involved?
The 4 WC exec. And Vic montagliani should be publicly outed for their blind mice routine

In a weird way, they may have done the criminal process a favour.

Having been involved with the youth side and seeing how they do investigate and discipline, let's just say that I have serious concerns about the fairness of some of the processes they use.

Had they gone hard after BB, they could very well have made enough of a mess of it to tar any subsequent criminal proceedings enough to stop them in their tracks.

For instance, if they browbeat a confession of out him on fear of the loss of his job, any such confession may well have been seen as involuntary and inadmissible. Moreover, interviewing individual witnesses is a delicate process that can be cross-contaminated if not done properly. If witnesses are interviewed together, or encouraged to read each other's statements, for instance, it can forever jeopardize the reliability of that evidence in a court of law.

So, while I am not remotely condoning any inaction, the guilty pleas tell me that the police were able to marshall enough reliable evidence for BB's lawyer - whoever that is - to say "uh... we have a problem".

On balance, I think that's a win for his victims.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

In a weird way, they may have done the criminal process a favour.

Having been involved with the youth side and seeing how they do investigate and discipline, let's just say that I have serious concerns about the fairness of some of the processes they use.

Had they gone hard after BB, they could very well have made enough of a mess of it to tar any subsequent criminal proceedings enough to stop them in their tracks.

For instance, if they browbeat a confession of out him on fear of the loss of his job, any such confession may well have been seen as involuntary and inadmissible. Moreover, interviewing individual witnesses is a delicate process that can be cross-contaminated if not done properly. If witnesses are interviewed together, or encouraged to read each other's statements, for instance, it can forever jeopardize the reliability of that evidence in a court of law.

So, while I am not remotely condoning any inaction, the guilty pleas tell me that the police were able to marshall enough reliable evidence for BB's lawyer - whoever that is - to say "uh... we have a problem".

On balance, I think that's a win for his victims.

Just ask Jian Ghomeshi's accusers about what happens when there is evidence of witnesses/victims discussing their evidence...

To your point, the fact that he has plead guilty, given the historical nature of the charges and the seeming lack of known evidence beyond simply just the accusations of the victims, speaks to the investigation the RCMP were obviously able to mount. These cases are usually pretty difficult to prove and while I am sure that both sides were keen to avoid trial in general, it would appear BB was worried about his chances at the end of the day based on whatever has come to light behind the scenes.

I would be surprised if Crown and defense were not going together on sentencing, as it certainly seems as though they have been working in decent unison throughout the process so far. That said, I am sure you are correct about pre-sentencing reports being prepared, so we will see what weight those may get. Also, I would assume Crown will be canvassing the complainants about the chance to make a victim impact statement.

Anyone holding out for jail time (see: Twitter) I think needs to get ready to be disappointed. BB has no criminal record, pled guilty (thus saving the victims the need to testify) and is, presumably, not a threat to reoffend. My money has been on conditional sentence since the beginning with all the usual bells and whistles about never coaching youths again, registering as a sex offender, rehab/education re his behaviour, etc.

 

[mtkb]

Bang on. Ghomeshi's accusers, of course, perjured themselves in court and were frankly lucky not to end up charged themselves...

 

[Spankmemanky]

Bang on. Ghomeshi's accusers, of course, perjured themselves in court and were frankly lucky not to end up charged themselves...

Just ask Jian Ghomeshi's accusers about what happens when there is evidence of witnesses/victims discussing their evidence...

To your point, the fact that he has plead guilty, given the historical nature of the charges and the seeming lack of known evidence beyond simply just the accusations of the victims, speaks to the investigation the RCMP were obviously able to mount. These cases are usually pretty difficult to prove and while I am sure that both sides were keen to avoid trial in general, it would appear BB was worried about his chances at the end of the day based on whatever has come to light behind the scenes.

I would be surprised if Crown and defense were not going together on sentencing, as it certainly seems as though they have been working in decent unison throughout the process so far. That said, I am sure you are correct about pre-sentencing reports being prepared, so we will see what weight those may get. Also, I would assume Crown will be canvassing the complainants about the chance to make a victim impact statement.

Anyone holding out for jail time (see: Twitter) I think needs to get ready to be disappointed. BB has no criminal record, pled guilty (thus saving the victims the need to testify) and is, presumably, not a threat to reoffend. My money has been on conditional sentence since the beginning with all the usual bells and whistles about never coaching youths again, registering as a sex offender, rehab/education re his behaviour, etc.

Is there any way that BCSA/CSA could be taken to court and held liable for negligent investigation?

 

[mtkb]

Is there any way that BCSA/CSA could be taken to court and held liable for negligent investigation?

By who? What's the harm done? I mean I guess a class action by all the women who want to sign on to having a) been treated sexually inappropriately b) complained and c) were told to fcuk off - that might have some legs if some of them could show it led directly to psychological harm... but you'd have to show that the investigation was, in fact, negligent, that they owed a duty of care, and that a competent investigation would have saved them from being harmed in the way that they were.

I think it's a long-shot... but I also think that the discovery process could be extremely uncomfortable for the institutional actors and the Whitecaps...

 

[PodcastProducer]

Hello everyone. I'm in the very early stages of research of this Birarda story for potential development into a serialized podcast.

Just wanted to put it out there... if you have any information to offer about this story, please feel free to reach out to me via DM.

Thanks.

 

[Spankmemanky]

Hello everyone. I'm in the very early stages of research of this Birarda story for potential development into a serialized podcast.

Just wanted to put it out there... if you have any information to offer about this story, please feel free to reach out to me via DM.

Thanks.

Start with the process of discipline…. Gong show!!!

 

[Dude]

Start with the process of discipline…. Gong show!!!

This, as well as “Internal Investigations”.

 

[Spankmemanky]

This, as well as “Internal Investigations”.

It’s a long read… but a laugh

Due Diligence or Don’t diligence; Plausible deniability and whistleblowing in soccer in BC.

thedangersofdontdiligence.blogspot.com

 

[Regs]

Crown asks for two-year sentence for former Whitecaps women's coach

Sentencing hearing for Bob Birarda, who pleaded guilty in February to four sex charges, will continue at a later date in North Vancouver provincial court.

www.nsnews.com

 

[akslop]

Sick Fuk!

Some of the testimony just wow.

"The fourth victim first met Birarda when she played with a Vancouver area soccer academy as an 11-year-old. Later, in 2006, the teen was playing on an elite provincial team when she went to Birarda for advice."

Hopefully his experience in General population justifies the Karma he deserves.

Crown asks for two-year sentence for former Whitecaps women's coach

Sentencing hearing for Bob Birarda, who pleaded guilty in February to four sex charges, will continue at a later date in North Vancouver provincial court.

www.nsnews.com

 

[Spankmemanky]

Sick Fuk!

Some of the testimony just wow.

"The fourth victim first met Birarda when she played with a Vancouver area soccer academy as an 11-year-old. Later, in 2006, the teen was playing on an elite provincial team when she went to Birarda for advice."

Hopefully his experience in General population justifies the Karma he deserves.

Crown asks for two-year sentence for former Whitecaps women's coach

Sentencing hearing for Bob Birarda, who pleaded guilty in February to four sex charges, will continue at a later date in North Vancouver provincial court.

www.nsnews.com

I’m sure there’s a few more from said academy that would feel the same ….creepy af

 

[mtkb]

He'll have to go into protective custody - sex crimes against children put you at the lowest rung of the prison hierarchy and given half a chance they'd kill him. But yeah, jail is inevitable here, and properly so...

 

[Canucks4Ever]

But yeah, jail is inevitable here, and properly so...

Are you sold on this?

It goes without saying that the crimes he has admitted to are horrific and he deserves to be comprehensively punished. However, it sounds as though the entire hearing on Wednesday was taken up by Crown's submissions, hence that is what came through in the reporting.

Defense, I am sure, has plenty of evidence to show that he was, to many, a bastion of the soccer community and a great coach, mentor, leader, blah, blah, blah. I would guess there will be expert reports on his rehabilitation and the steps he has taken/will take to learn from his actions and try to, some how, in some way make amends. All the usuals.

Without devolving into too much of a debate about sentencing principles, I am still thinking he probably ends up getting to serve his sentence in the community.

I am assuming Crown proceeded by way of indictment, but I have not totally delved into the charges and the Criminal Code sections. I know there are minimum sentence requirements for these charges, but I do not think there are minimum terms of imprisonment? I will defer to your expertise in criminal practice, though.

I think he will get the full two years less a day and probably the full three years probation that Crown is seeking, but I am not sure he will actually see any time actually physically in a prison cell. The under two years threshold makes him eligible for a conditional sentence/house arrest.

He has been living in the community since the charges, plus the main way in which he encountered his victims, coaching, is no longer part of his life. So it would presumably be tough to argue that he poses an active danger to the community.

A two year conditional sentence, plus all the sex offender registry requirements, followed by three years probation for a person with no existing criminal record would seem to tick the deterrence and denunciation boxes from a sentencing perspective, no? His life has been blown up, deservedly so, and regardless of the sentence is reputation is ruined forever. There is supposed to be a "rehabilitative" element to sentencing, not purely a punitive one, and I cannot see prison being anything but punitive.

Of course, there is the public perception/interest in the administration of justice element to consider, and clearly the public wants to see him severely punished. The obvious inference is that if his offenses stretched over such a lengthy period of time, there are surely others who have fallen through the cracks, to say nothing of the fact that he was initially charged with, I believe, nine counts before pleading guilty to four.

However, the Court can only make its sentencing based on the evidence before it. Any other charges remain unproven and he is, by presumption, innocent of those until proven otherwise. I am not sure the public outcry alone is enough to see him actually end up in a prison.

To be clear, I am not necessarily advocating for a conditional sentence. Just speculating that is where the court may go and I am sure it is what his counsel will be seeking.

Again, though, I defer to your expertise.

 

[mtkb]

Are you sold on this?

It goes without saying that the crimes he has admitted to are horrific and he deserves to be comprehensively punished. However, it sounds as though the entire hearing on Wednesday was taken up by Crown's submissions, hence that is what came through in the reporting.

Defense, I am sure, has plenty of evidence to show that he was, to many, a bastion of the soccer community and a great coach, mentor, leader, blah, blah, blah. I would guess there will be expert reports on his rehabilitation and the steps he has taken/will take to learn from his actions and try to, some how, in some way make amends. All the usuals.

Without devolving into too much of a debate about sentencing principles, I am still thinking he probably ends up getting to serve his sentence in the community.

I am assuming Crown proceeded by way of indictment, but I have not totally delved into the charges and the Criminal Code sections. I know there are minimum sentence requirements for these charges, but I do not think there are minimum terms of imprisonment? I will defer to your expertise in criminal practice, though.

I think he will get the full two years less a day and probably the full three years probation that Crown is seeking, but I am not sure he will actually see any time actually physically in a prison cell. The under two years threshold makes him eligible for a conditional sentence/house arrest.

He has been living in the community since the charges, plus the main way in which he encountered his victims, coaching, is no longer part of his life. So it would presumably be tough to argue that he poses an active danger to the community.

A two year conditional sentence, plus all the sex offender registry requirements, followed by three years probation for a person with no existing criminal record would seem to tick the deterrence and denunciation boxes from a sentencing perspective, no? His life has been blown up, deservedly so, and regardless of the sentence is reputation is ruined forever. There is supposed to be a "rehabilitative" element to sentencing, not purely a punitive one, and I cannot see prison being anything but punitive.

Of course, there is the public perception/interest in the administration of justice element to consider, and clearly the public wants to see him severely punished. The obvious inference is that if his offenses stretched over such a lengthy period of time, there are surely others who have fallen through the cracks, to say nothing of the fact that he was initially charged with, I believe, nine counts before pleading guilty to four.

However, the Court can only make its sentencing based on the evidence before it. Any other charges remain unproven and he is, by presumption, innocent of those until proven otherwise. I am not sure the public outcry alone is enough to see him actually end up in a prison.

To be clear, I am not necessarily advocating for a conditional sentence. Just speculating that is where the court may go and I am sure it is what his counsel will be seeking.

Again, though, I defer to your expertise.

You've actually covered the various sentencing principles that have to be considered in a comprehensive and accurate way. Well done. Gives me renewed faith that when I tell the media that a properly informed public would understand a particular sentence, I'm not just full of hot air lol.

One of the charges he pled does indeed have a one year minimum jail sentence. Many of those Harper-era mandatory minimums have been tossed as being unconstitutional, but I think this particular minimum is still on the books. I'll double check.

Even if the minimum is gone, we're talking about an adult with a fiduciary duty to multiple minors who groomed them for his own sexual gratification, used that fidicuary duty actively to advance his cause (which is worse than just being in that position), and in one case, had a sexual relationship with a player. The other thing that may bite him is starting the grooming at age 11 - that's very different than a 25 year old hitting on a 17 year old (which is bad enough especially given the fiduciary).

I'm not going to predict anything because the judge is a friend and colleague and the only opinion that ultimately matters is hers. But if I'm judging this, and what was reported is an accurate summary of the agree facts, this type of repeated interference with the sexual integrity of youth members of society by a fiduciary cries out for a sentence that emphasizes general deterrence. I'd probably land somewhere around 18 months, with a probationary period after designed to focus more on rehabilitation.

Remember too that he'd only do a portion of that sentence - 1/3 or 2/3 depending on a variety of factors I won't bore everyone with here...