Bob Birarda done as Womens Whitecaps/ CSA Womens U-20 Gaffer

[Spankmemanky]

What does that mean? I'm serious here, what does mid-reporting mean and how did you know that? Is there a copy of the report he fluffed available anywhere for people to make their own judgements?

Any report or investigation that does not directly speak to the victims, their families, NT STAFF is well short of credibility or reliability or duty to protect….Yet that is what was served up to the CSA….and they ate it up without ANYBODY asking why a NT coach was leaving on the eve of a major tournament, with the well wishes of the

For all the shite the WFC are taking…. The CSA is more culpable because they apparently oversee the protection of players in this country

When in actual fact all they do is protect the dipshits

 

[Spankmemanky]

Any report or investigation that does not directly speak to the victims, their families, NT STAFF is well short of credibility or reliability or duty to protect….Yet that is what was served up to the CSA….and they ate it up without ANYBODY asking why a NT coach was leaving on the eve of a major tournament, with the well wishes of the

For all the shite the WFC are taking…. The CSA is more culpable because they apparently oversee the protection of players in this country

When in actual fact all they do is protect the dipshits

Sorry mis-reporting

 

[Regs]

.and they ate it up without ANYBODY asking why a NT coach was leaving on the eve of a major tournament

ummmm.....

 

[Spankmemanky]

Sorry mis-reporting

What do you think the investigative budget for the CSA or BCSA Is? ANSWER 0

What do you think the investigative credentials are for the plebs that volunteer for these non profit organizations in disciplinary positions?

 

[mtkb]

What do you think the investigative budget for the CSA or BCSA Is? ANSWER 0

What do you think the investigative credentials are for the plebs that volunteer for these non profit organizations in disciplinary positions?

Assuming what Spanky is saying is what actually happened, the points about the process falling short of the mark are well made.

As for investigative credentials, that point is often bang on - although Dave Jones is currently head of discipline for BC Soccer, I believe - and as a retired police chief, I think they've done quite well to get him to dive in...

 

[PV]

Assuming what Spanky is saying is what actually happened, the points about the process falling short of the mark are well made.

As for investigative credentials, that point is often bang on - although Dave Jones is currently head of discipline for BC Soccer, I believe - and as a retired police chief, I think they've done quite well to get him to dive in...

Yes, jones has useful skills and probably is an improvement, but not infallible, witness the Archer case where he reviewed an allegation of abuse by 2 officers. The bc police complaint commission reached a different conclusion. However, the commission continued to work with him afterwards suggesting they are comfortable with him.
As for big Vic, the players want him suspended until the investigation is complete. They are not saying he should be fired.

 

[Regs]

Assuming what Spanky is saying is what actually happened, the points about the process falling short of the mark are well made.

Would love to join the assumption gang here but I'm asking specific questions so I can form my own opinion. So far, I'm not in that position yet.

 

[Spankmemanky]

Concacaf president Montagliani says Canada abuse claims were treated seriously

The former president of Canada Soccer says the women who have come forward with allegations of abuse are ‘courageous as hell’

www.google.ca

According to this article and his own admission in said article, he DID NOT read the report from an investigator hired by the WFC.

Soooooo I’m not sure how seriously it was treated if the manager of NT couldn’t give it a peruse before someone unknown presented it to CSA board.

He also states the CSA is not responsible for suspending BB coaching license that that is the mandate of BCSA (who claim they were never notified by the WFC or CSA regarding suspect behaviour of BB or the reasons behind his dismissal)

It’s a gong show where they are all throwing each other under the bus to deny any responsibility for being derelict in their duties to protect.

 

[Spankmemanky]

Concacaf president Montagliani says Canada abuse claims were treated seriously

The former president of Canada Soccer says the women who have come forward with allegations of abuse are ‘courageous as hell’

www.google.ca

According to this article and his own admission in said article, he DID NOT read the report from an investigator hired by the WFC.

Soooooo I’m not sure how seriously it was treated if the manager of NT couldn’t give it a peruse before someone unknown presented it to CSA board.

He also states the CSA is not responsible for suspending BB coaching license that that is the mandate of BCSA (who claim they were never notified by the WFC or CSA regarding suspect behaviour of BB or the reasons behind his dismissal)

It’s a gong show where they are all throwing each other under the bus to deny any responsibility for being derelict in their duties to protect.

Is his bio to be believed??

Victor Montagliani - Axis Insurance Group

axisgroup.insure

Victor is a Risk Manager to a variety of law firms, professionals, real estate companies and mining companies. He is a dedicated professional whose personal philosophy is “People will not care what you know, if they don’t know that you care’.

Seems to me he has taken the philosophy “people will not care what I know, because I know enough to not say anything incriminating”

He should just stand up and admit he fuuuuuuuuuucked up by being buddy buddy with Birarda and letting his transgressions slide under the radar.

FIFA Cowards deny deny deny

 

[Regs]

Why is this so hard for you?

 

[Spankmemanky]

Why is this so hard for you?

Huh?

 

[Dude]

"and you know these things happened"... therein lies the problem - only the people who were directly involved "know"... everyone else is acting on what they believe to be true.

I don't think calling for heads to roll over as yet unproven allegations and as yet unproven negligence in the handling of those unproven allegations is appropriate.

There's now an open investigation into the handling of the allegations (and more - the sex assault stuff on the boys' side isn't escaping scrutiny here either, nor should it). Birarda is charged criminally - albeit for stuff from 1988 to 2008. Busby, on the basis of his alleged behaviour, could be. So yes, respectfully, it's time for everyone to slow their roll on the "off with their heads" mantra...

Highlighted above....that's the problem. There may be enough proof out there to successfully prove misconduct, but if it's actual sexual assault, that's likely only a truth two people know, so it comes down to what one believes. I don't know if his criminal trial is argued before a judge only or jury, really no idea. All I know is that, for me, I look at all these girls have to lose vs. gain, and I see a situation where stepping out of the shadows comes with a lot of added stress in one's life with virtually no reward except for the satisfaction they are- in their minds- doing right by the future generations. Why else would a bunch be so incensed about both cases, and so ruthless in their pursuit? Sometimes, seeking justice is still not enough for most victims of sexual assault to bother going through a fight like this that dredges up terrible memories. Most choose to just move on and try to forget.

So, it's now really on the jury of public opinion, weather people actually in the field of law like that or not.

 

[mtkb]

Highlighted above....that's the problem. There may be enough proof out there to successfully prove misconduct, but if it's actual sexual assault, that's likely only a truth two people know, so it comes down to what one believes. I don't know if his criminal trial is argued before a judge only or jury, really no idea. All I know is that, for me, I look at all these girls have to lose vs. gain, and I see a situation where stepping out of the shadows comes with a lot of added stress in one's life with virtually no reward except for the satisfaction they are- in their minds- doing right by the future generations. Why else would a bunch be so incensed about both cases, and so ruthless in their pursuit? Sometimes, seeking justice is still not enough for most victims of sexual assault to bother going through a fight like this that dredges up terrible memories. Most choose to just move on and try to forget.

So, it's now really on the jury of public opinion, weather people actually in the field of law like that or not.

If you mean BB, he will have a choice as to whether it's judge or jury. My view, he'd be an idiot to take a jury on something like this, because of precisely the logic you just employed - "why would they make it up?".

Well, turns out - and I mean no disrespect but this is coming from almost 19 years of dealing with these types of cases - complainants do make it up and we do have to examine the evidence closely to see if the case is there beyond a reasonable doubt. We can all agree that anyone in a position of power who would prey on young girls deserves to be vilified; the flip side is that we'd better make damn sure someone is guilty before tarring them with that brush.

Just as the system is moving away from negative and erroneous stereotypes about how a victim should act after (the case of a judge asking a woman why she didn't just close her legs comes to mind - google Robin Camp if you're interested), we can't employ erroneous assumptions the other way to bootstrap otherwise dodgy allegations...

 

[mtkb]

Huh?

I think Regs is politely saying that he'd like to see the evidence for himself, rather than rely on someone else's assessment of it. To that, I would add that you seem to be cherry-picking when you do and don't wish to rely on assertions Vic has made around the subject. That's fine - but when you're both relying on him and then questioning his reliability it's usually worth explaining how it is that you've come to conclude that he's partially reliable and partially not.

 

[mtkb]

Yes, jones has useful skills and probably is an improvement, but not infallible, witness the Archer case where he reviewed an allegation of abuse by 2 officers. The bc police complaint commission reached a different conclusion. However, the commission continued to work with him afterwards suggesting they are comfortable with him.
As for big Vic, the players want him suspended until the investigation is complete. They are not saying he should be fired.

Yeah, he erred there... but many judges err as well and that's what the appellate process is for... He's a massive improvement over any staff and/or BCSA board members involved previously, in my view...

 

[Spankmemanky]

I think Regs is politely saying that he'd like to see the evidence for himself, rather than rely on someone else's assessment of it. To that, I would add that you seem to be cherry-picking when you do and don't wish to rely on assertions Vic has made around the subject. That's fine - but when you're both relying on him and then questioning his reliability it's usually worth explaining how it is that you've come to conclude that he's partially reliable and partially not.

I think the issue is that there is no credible evidence…. Other than the 20+ women and one male youth player who have independently stated they were harassed, some assaulted, complained and were ignored or told to settle “in house”

The WFC ombudsperson and report is an inside sham… (as proven by Crown charges) and the new allegations against Busby. It’s essentially the broom for the rug.

For the CSA and it’s designate to rely solely on the report, and fail to act in the best interests of the “victims” is a breach of duty and demonstrates what I assume to be a dereliction of what a reasonable person would do in the same circumstance…. Unless you are a former US GYMNASTICS BOARD MEMBER I guess.

I would encourage the CSA to make the document public so that people can see what a bunch of incompetent dillholes are responsible for player safety

 

[Dude]

If you mean BB, he will have a choice as to whether it's judge or jury. My view, he'd be an idiot to take a jury on something like this, because of precisely the logic you just employed - "why would they make it up?".

Well, turns out - and I mean no disrespect but this is coming from almost 19 years of dealing with these types of cases - complainants do make it up and we do have to examine the evidence closely to see if the case is there beyond a reasonable doubt. We can all agree that anyone in a position of power who would prey on young girls deserves to be vilified; the flip side is that we'd better make damn sure someone is guilty before tarring them with that brush.

Just as the system is moving away from negative and erroneous stereotypes about how a victim should act after (the case of a judge asking a woman why she didn't just close her legs comes to mind - google Robin Camp if you're interested), we can't employ erroneous assumptions the other way to bootstrap otherwise dodgy allegations...

I agree there is a place for a system that is trained in uncovering the truth. I'll also admit I'm far from being a piece in that system. I'm as susceptible as any of falling into the "trial by media" situation.

I want this to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt...difficult when the case keeps getting delayed (in the BB instance).

Administrative Leave is probably the right place for the executives in question, for now, until there is judgement on at least BBs wrongdoings, then the executive can be dealt with.

I apply the same opinion to Vic, though.

 

[mtkb]

I think the issue is that there is no credible evidence…. Other than the 20+ women and one male youth player who have independently stated they were harassed, some assaulted, complained and were ignored or told to settle “in house”

The WFC ombudsperson and report is an inside sham… (as proven by Crown charges) and the new allegations against Busby. It’s essentially the broom for the rug.

For the CSA and it’s designate to rely solely on the report, and fail to act in the best interests of the “victims” is a breach of duty and demonstrates what I assume to be a dereliction of what a reasonable person would do in the same circumstance…. Unless you are a former US GYMNASTICS BOARD MEMBER I guess.

I would encourage the CSA to make the document public so that people can see what a bunch of incompetent dillholes are responsible for player safety

Yeah, 100 allegations don't make any individual one more credible. The exception to that is what's called "similar fact evidence", where allegations are so similar in nature that the similarities become relevant. Much judicial ink has been spilled on the use of this type of evidence, but it boils down to this: if someone is accused of X and has been convicted of X before, in quite similar factual circumstances, you can use that previous conviction as evidenc supporting a conviction with the new accusation. On the other hand, if you're trying to use two (or more) unproven allegations to support the other (or others), then the similarities had better be tantamount to a calling card (like a very specific m.o.) in order for that kind of reasoning to be permissible.

The various allegations involving the Whitecaps certainly suggest a cultural problem, but there's nothing I've seen to remotely rise to the level of admissible similar fact evidence.

Also, the fact of being charged means nada. We still have the presumption of innocence in this country, full stop. They've made their assessment; great. Sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong. We'll see.

The one thing I will agree with is this - ombudspersons who aren't truly independent are completely useless...

 

[dezza]

The trauma from the past still haunting ex-women's Whitecaps players

Former Whitecaps player Carey Gustafson said she's been diagnosed with PTSD and has had night terrors ever since being coached by Bob Birarda — who is up on criminal charges relating to his coaching misconduct.

theprovince.com

 

[Regs]

Not sure too much what that experience adds - there's not really too much said, must be more that either wasn't shared or the journalist is really bad.