Welcome to the TTP community

Be apart of something great, join today!

BC Soccer Needs to Become Uncomfortable

Regs

Staff member
Total Bastard
Jun 28, 2001
30,565
17,353
Tokens
12,719
Dirty Money
53,175
  • Thread starter
  • Admin
  • #2
@mtkb do you think this little tidbit is going to end well?

The directing boards of Cliff Avenue, Mountain United, Wesburn FC, Burnaby Metro and Burnaby Girls have all voted to approve their amalgamation into a single organization: Burnaby FC. The idea of amalgamation isn’t new or unique, but it is rare.

At the end of the day, what would amalgamation improve / solve?
 

freddy

Lifetime Better Bastard
Mar 26, 2006
2,196
1,412
Tokens
13,117
Dirty Money
3,029
I'm all for dreaming big, pursuing things that are of interest for you, but the reality is that Canada is only going to be 2nd tier country in world soccer. There are too many competing sports, not nearly enough legacy soccer players that are raising kids to also be excellent, and not enough warm weather to become a global force, unless Canada actively pursues key 3rd world players with Citizenship - and at the end of the day, is that really Canada rising to the challenge, or working the system?

Part two of this is that I see so many kids now who are pigeon-holed into a particular sport by 9 or earlier and go full at it, instead of becoming a rounded athlete. The fun factor leaves the game for a lot of kids and I have witnessed so many then leaves sports altogether as they have negative association with their hard pushing coaches, parents, etc.

No disrespect to Team Canada - they were very exciting and amazing to watch get to the WC; the Belgium game was something that with a little luck could have gone very differently, but at the end of the day, we went 0-3 with one goal.
 

dezza

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2005
3,606
1,968
Tokens
3,637
Dirty Money
420
I appreciate the quotes from Koch. It's a really nice way of saying that BC is full of lazy "professional" coaches who are happy to collect their pay cheques without ever being held accountable for successfully developing players. The problem is actually with the clubs which enable this kind of behavior. The various political quagmires are often the direct result of protectionism from these same TDs trying to hang on to their piece of the pie when they are challenged.

Everyone else is in this article is just talking caca. The failure of Whitecaps who have had the top prospects in their program and developed none of them is not mentioned.

Also JJ couldn't manage to do 60 seconds of googling to see that Waterman actually went "semipro" with Kitsap? Or has he intentionally left that out because it doesn't fit the TSS narrative?

As for Burnaby FC, why is South Burnaby Metro Club not included?
 

Reccos

Well-Known Member
Oct 7, 2001
1,549
59
Tokens
96
Dirty Money
100
@mtkb do you think this little tidbit is going to end well?



At the end of the day, what would amalgamation improve / solve?

I'm not involved in soccer at any level these days but this question of what this amalgamation is going to solve is a good one. It may be a good thing.

The vision of these powerful clubs as the key to developing players who can play at pro and national levels hasn't panned out that I can see.

It's pro leagues yes here in Canada and also what Herdman said post-WC '22. Canada has to play the Croatia's etc before the actual World Cup. IIRC he also said Canada has to have more players in the top 5 leagues in the world to make a difference. A point that kind of counters the local professional leagues for men and women.
 

Regs

Staff member
Total Bastard
Jun 28, 2001
30,565
17,353
Tokens
12,719
Dirty Money
53,175
  • Thread starter
  • Admin
  • #8
I'm not involved in soccer at any level these days but this question of what this amalgamation is going to solve is a good one. It may be a good thing.

The vision of these powerful clubs as the key to developing players who can play at pro and national levels hasn't panned out that I can see.

It's pro leagues yes here in Canada and also what Herdman said post-WC '22. Canada has to play the Croatia's etc before the actual World Cup. IIRC he also said Canada has to have more players in the top 5 leagues in the world to make a difference. A point that kind of counters the local professional leagues for men and women.
Don't forget he also said they need to sign more dual nationals... the number of BCers in the CMNT fold isn't gonna change anytime soon.
 

Spankmemanky

Active Member
Apr 18, 2019
115
88
Tokens
208
Dirty Money
20
We’re going nowhere until our soccer clubs and provincial associations are run by soccer people with leadership and business backgrounds, some sort of ethics would be nice as well.
The current state is a shite show of useless twats collecting paycheques for doing squat when it comes to LTPD.

I’d put BCSA’s Jason Elligott at the top of that heap…..dung master.
 

bulljive

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2003
2,520
1,145
Tokens
1,699
Dirty Money
100
Regs I think at a simple level for me it just comes down to getting the system in place. That does take significant funding as well as the right people running it. If you look at hockey it’s a machine. The pathways are pretty clear. Any hockey parent that’s had their kid multi sporting with soccer will tell you……soccer is a clusterfcuk and way less organized at a elite level. It’s hard to argue.

Semi hockey(who have had a big part in the development of players who’ve gone pro)-coastal soccer(haven’t developed a good fart.). Side by side same community. It’s tough to compare the sports but the road/path in hockey is pretty clear.

I’m a soccer guy and I really don’t know the “path”. If my kid gets asked to go to the Caps program when the time comes I’d probably say no. The extra drive etc and really what are they producing. if you’re not some sort of freak who’s so far above the level that Europe is a legit option, the road still for me isn’t laid out.

That article really laid it out to me. To many people have gotten comfortable. Just names, ex pros. Dealing with soccer boards of moms/dads that don’t know any better. I don’t even blame the guys in the position. Who’s demanding more, nobody is there to hold anyone accountable for better
 

dezza

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2005
3,606
1,968
Tokens
3,637
Dirty Money
420
100% it is an accountability issue, both at BC Soccer and the club level.

That said, what excuses do all the private academies have for producing jack shite since Roman Tulis passed away more than a decade ago?
 

Michael

Member
Jan 25, 2019
93
95
Tokens
199
Dirty Money
20
Regs I think at a simple level for me it just comes down to getting the system in place. That does take significant funding as well as the right people running it. If you look at hockey it’s a machine. The pathways are pretty clear. Any hockey parent that’s had their kid multi sporting with soccer will tell you……soccer is a clusterfcuk and way less organized at a elite level. It’s hard to argue.

Semi hockey(who have had a big part in the development of players who’ve gone pro)-coastal soccer(haven’t developed a good fart.). Side by side same community. It’s tough to compare the sports but the road/path in hockey is pretty clear.

I’m a soccer guy and I really don’t know the “path”. If my kid gets asked to go to the Caps program when the time comes I’d probably say no. The extra drive etc and really what are they producing. if you’re not some sort of freak who’s so far above the level that Europe is a legit option, the road still for me isn’t laid out.

That article really laid it out to me. To many people have gotten comfortable. Just names, ex pros. Dealing with soccer boards of moms/dads that don’t know any better. I don’t even blame the guys in the position. Who’s demanding more, nobody is there to hold anyone accountable for better
I second this sentiment. Hockey pathways is like optimized code. It produces the right output, well documented and ambiguities are minimized (sorta, they all deal with parents).

Football (Soccer) pathway is like a black box delivered by a consultant guarantee - 'trust me on this and don't forget to keep up with the monthly service contract'.

As for the article I do believe more opportunities for pro / sem-pro exposure is good. The bottom push to the top isn't working for obvious reasons. - youth soccer people clamoring to protect and push 'their' prospects. More opportunities for higher tier clubs to 'pull' from below regardless of affiliation is needed.

I'm keenly aware of the fallacy of chasing the name-brands. I.e. How many whitecaps academy prospects have actually made the 1st team? However, I cannot dismiss that because they are the only MLS branded LTPD pathway in town, they draw the highest level of skilled players in the area. I have had an opportunity to watch their newly minted Discovery program in action and the level of play compared to a BCSPL club is much higher.
 

mtkb

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2011
1,602
1,045
Tokens
2,159
Dirty Money
100
@mtkb do you think this little tidbit is going to end well?



At the end of the day, what would amalgamation improve / solve?

I've been out of it for six years now, so I don't really have my finger on the pulse of this. Wesburn and Cliff joining up is impressive enough, but getting Burnaby Girls and Cliff Girls on the same page is truly remarkable - that's where the real hate has been, historically (in relative terms; Burnaby Girls was created by a group of parents disillusioned with how the girls were treated at Wesburn back when that club had boys and girls teams).

The big miss is not having SBMC involved, although I'm sure it wasn't for lack of trying. SBMC and Cliff have been the more recent rivals and it's varied all the way from openly hostile to grudging respect at the district level. The other interesting thing about this merger is that it appears to fold district run clubs (I'm assuming that was metro selects level but I could be wrong) into the new club, which would require district to sign off which would in turn require basically everyone outside of SBMC agreeing.

Candidly, Cliff by far and away was our most reliable partner at Mountain and had the best internal grassroots development program / academy in Burnaby. NVFC has also decided to go it alone and run their own BCSPL franchise, so some of this will be about firming up the Burnaby talent pipeline / perhaps an admission that the North Shore kids are going to stay home.

Of course, if we're back to Burnaby FC and NVFC at the top level, the BCSPL starts to look a lot like the old Metro Select league - except with for profit private academies now in and fancy BC Soccer "club charter" designations for all. Yawn.

Bottom line, if the people in Burnaby can get along it's probably a good thing in terms of economies of scale, sharing fields, scheduling, balancing and filling teams, etc... Will have to see if it lasts...
 

Spankmemanky

Active Member
Apr 18, 2019
115
88
Tokens
208
Dirty Money
20
As a wesburn coach and parent couldn’t be happier that the mom and pop club has decided to enter the millennium when it comes to soccer development… and I totally agree with mtkb…. Get rid of petty politicking and soccer might have a chance to actually grow and succeed
 

southsloper

New Member
Apr 12, 2018
6
2
Tokens
10
Dirty Money
20
Apparently declined the invitation.
Probably not that simple -- as South Burnaby Metro Club is not purely a football club. SBMC (formerly "M" was "Men's") also has baseball & basketball. In Nov'22 they added volleyball (in Nov '22) to their repertoire of youth sports. So Youth Soccer part of SBMC may not have been able to join (and likely there was opposition too).

Similarly Wesburn FC (formally "Wesburn Football Youth Soccer Ass'n"?) was part of the Wesburn Community Ass'n as one time, but had split out as a separate entity. Note that NWSC (New Westminster SC, formerly known as Royal City SC) is a member of the Burnaby District Youth Soccer Ass'n, is not part of the BFC amalgamation either.

Assuming status quo, Burnaby District members will be SBMC Soccer, NWSC and new BFC. With the former BDYSA clubs MUFC, CAUFC, BGSC, Wesburn FC and BDMS (not a club, but the district sponsored Metro association) gone.
 

mtkb

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2011
1,602
1,045
Tokens
2,159
Dirty Money
100
Probably not that simple -- as South Burnaby Metro Club is not purely a football club. SBMC (formerly "M" was "Men's") also has baseball & basketball. In Nov'22 they added volleyball (in Nov '22) to their repertoire of youth sports. So Youth Soccer part of SBMC may not have been able to join (and likely there was opposition too).

Similarly Wesburn FC (formally "Wesburn Football Youth Soccer Ass'n"?) was part of the Wesburn Community Ass'n as one time, but had split out as a separate entity. Note that NWSC (New Westminster SC, formerly known as Royal City SC) is a member of the Burnaby District Youth Soccer Ass'n, is not part of the BFC amalgamation either.

Assuming status quo, Burnaby District members will be SBMC Soccer, NWSC and new BFC. With the former BDYSA clubs MUFC, CAUFC, BGSC, Wesburn FC and BDMS (not a club, but the district sponsored Metro association) gone.

Yeah, that aspect of how SBMC is constructed does add some difficulties - although if they were motivated to add a sport in theory they could have found the motivation to delegate a sport to a combined club... I think the bigger issue is that Cliff and South have turned into arch-rivals, with Wesburn aligning with one or the other as the political spirit moved over the years.

Your Wesburn history is also accurate, but that goes back to the 70's if not the 60's, I believe... Certainly by the time I started playing in the mid 80's it was just the Wesburn Soccer Club....
 

Members online

Your TTP Wallet

Tokens
0
Dirty Money
0
TTP Dollars
$0
Top