B-Ball World Championships

One Dart

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I heard today that Mark Cuban is trying to protect his investments by preventing Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Dirk Nowitzki, and Shawn Bradley from playing because of insurance reasons. Nash made some good comments today I thought. He said that it would be tough not to play but that Mark is his boss and has done an awful lot for him. I think that only begs the question about Canadians playing basketball and what Steve Nash has done for them. Will that have an effect on what people think of him. Personally I hope he plays because he does so with more passion than probably any other NBA'er while playing for his country and it is fun to watch.
 

sensei_hanson

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Once Nash gained all-NBA status, I figured Cuban would be completely against him playing for Canada.

It's not like Steve is just another cog in the machine, like PGs Andre Miller and Baron Davis are for the USA. He's everything Canada has, he never leaves the floor, and he plays a physically-demanding style - lots of running, pushing the ball, and going hard to the hoop, which takes its toll on a smaller player.

Essentially, he has to put in as much (or, in my opinion, more) of an effort playing for Canada as he would running the point for the Mavs. And in an NBA off-season generally meant for R&R, intense workloads that fail to benefit the Dallas franchise in any way whatosever are generally frowned upon.

Nash is a great ambassador for Canadian hoops, but I gotta side with Cuban on this one. You don't let a major investment go run wild with any team other than your own. It's just proper business management. You can't blame Nash if he decides to decline the invite from Team Canada - he's essentially powerless in the grand scheme of things. Would he be looked upon favourably if he put his NBA career in jeopardy for a nation that isn't all that basketball-friendly in the first place?
 

Reccos

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Cuban has a point, but...

Mark Cuban is a hot dog and is always grandstanding. Why is he is making this public now and not earlier? If it was a huge concern wouldn't other owners feel the same way about their top stars? They seem to be okay with the insurance they have in place. Injuries are always a risk in sport and no less in basketball.

If club sides in soccer took his position the world cup would be pretty lousy.
 

Regs

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From what I read, another owner has expressed concern.

I agree with what Cuban says... if he is on the hook for Nash's salary if he should get hurt and the insurance doesn't cover it then he should have a say.

~Regs.
 

Dude

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On top of the points already mentioned, it is also evident that USA Basketball provides the proper insurance for its players (to the tune of something like $200-$300K USD / player).

Cuban is on record as saying that he'll let Nash play if he has adequate insurance coverage. Who should be paying that? Cuban? Nash himself? No way. The real question that needs to be asked is this: how seriously does Canada, as a Nation, value its athletic programs? If Canada wants to try and compete for a medal, they need their best players. In order to do that, they need to step up to the plate and fund the proper insurance.

Reccos: you can't compare soccer. On a worldwide scale, soccer is way bigger than basketball. I'm sure smaller or poorer countries (i.e.: Cameroon) have no problems coming up with the $$$ to cover their players insurance policies, even at the expense of their starving populations (who would revolt if the top players couldn't compete in the WC). Besides, how many soccer players in the world make as much as Steve Nash, at something like $6m / year? Consider that, and then consider that Nash would likely be one of the lowest paid players on the US squad. Their insurance costs must be astronomical.
 

sensei_hanson

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Originally posted by Reccos
If club sides in soccer took his position the world cup would be pretty lousy.
Uhhhh....isn't this the exact same problem several european-based Canadian Internationals face when it comes time for another CONCACAF arse-kicking? I don't recall Radzinski, Forrest, DeVos or Pesch having their managers celebrating the fact they have to release a player for a long flight across the Atlantic to get kicked in San Salvador for 90 minutes. Why do you think Radzinski abandoned the National Program for so long?

And, besides that, what the hell does Cuban being a hotdog have to do with anything? He's a businessman, and adhering to an awful insurance policy is a stupid business move. He can run his mouth all day, so long as he's making valid points. His critiques on officiating and how the NBA governs itself are all very accurate, and have tons of factual evidence behind them. Have you ever actually listened to what Mark Cuban rants on about? Sure, he's an annoying fcuk, but he's not coming up with outrageous claims or major conspiracy theories.

Dude has a pretty good point about bucking up for a medal, but it's not valid. When has Canada ever put forth a lot of money for a sport, outside of hockey? You should have heard Triano on Sportsnet last night. He was basically telling Nash not to fcuk up a good thing with Dallas and sit out if Cuban says so. He's completely based in the reality that there is no way Basketball Canada can cough up the jing to have Nash compete. And this is the head coach of the National program. Tells you something right there.
 

sensei_hanson

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hmmmm

Interesting decision by the Krauts. Speaks volumes about what Dude was mentioning earlier.

FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) -- Dirk Nowitzki, the Dallas Mavericks All-Star forward, has received clearance to play for Germany at the upcoming World Championship in Indianapolis, the German basketball federation said Tuesday.

Federation spokesman Christoph Bueker said an insurance coverage dispute with Mavericks owner Mark Cuban had been settled. The federation will pay about dollars 200,000 to have Nowitzki covered for the Aug. 29-Sept. 8 championship, he said.

Nowitzki, who underwent ankle surgery after the NBA season, has been training with the German team and will play in a warm-up tournament later this week.

With the forward on its roster, Germany could have an outside chance of clinching a medal at the worlds.

Center Shawn Bradley, Nowitzki's Dallas teammate, is unlikely to play because the German federation has not been able to pay for his insurance premium as well.

"The way things are looking now, he won't be playing," Bueker said
 

Reccos

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Sensei: You are right in part...

You are definitely right that our Canadian soccer players aren't very readily released to fly thousands of miles here to play for Canada. In part, it stems from the fact that they are not the top players at top clubs like Man United where they could become unhappy if the club didn't support their return to Canada. In part, the players themselves probably are concerned that if they do come home they will simply be replaced by a local player and there job is now toast.

However, my main point still is that you don't hear the Man Uniteds or Arsenals saying they don't want their players going to the World Cup.

I know Triano from SFU days and he is a bit of a politician and isn't about to piss off the NBA where I believe he still is doing some work (although I am not sure). I wouldn't take Jay's statements on Steve Nash to the bank this time. He has got to be pissed that this has come up now.

Don't forget Triano learned to shovel the bs as far as when he played on the National team for Jack Donahue (the world's largest BSer) and later with the lying Grizzlies.

I really don't know why you guys are trying so hard to be on the Cuban bandwagon on this one. Could it be the Canadian inferiority complex coming out here? That is, we poor fcuks shouldn't have a player like him play for our country. It's the federal government's fault, they won't pay the insurance, etc, etc.

One last point: I don't where Nash practices in the off season but I have heard that in some US cities where there are a lot of NBA and top college players they play games that are apparently pretty competitive to get ready for league and college play. These games are reputed to be intensive and at times quite rough. It may not be the world basketball championships, but they practice and play hard according to media reports and player statements.
 

Dude

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The difference is, Reccos, that if you're playing a bit of pick-up ball, and you tweak your ankle, you're very likely going to sit down, and let the thing rest. Do you see Steve Nash sitting down in the WC to let any minor wound heal? No way. He'll be out there on one leg to help the team win.

Besides that, my understanding of the insurance policies teams provide for players is that the policy covers them for basketball related off-season workouts. It does not, however, cover them for competition. Once Nash steps onto the court for an official, snactioned game, he's no longer covered by the Mav's policy.
 

sensei_hanson

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I'm not trying to be on the Cuban bandwagon here. It is perfectly legitimate for someone to agree with one's principles and not have your nose shoved up their arse.

Cuban has been a good owner since he took over the Mavs. Do you remember Dallas before he came into power? They were a revolving door that high draft picks and talented players swung through on their way to greener pastures. They hadn't made the playoffs since 1979.

He came in, made a lot of good player and personnel moves, and made it clear that he'd be willing to spend however much money it took to make the team better. How fcuking awesome would it be to have that kind of ownership dedication in Vancouver? Between Michael Heisley and John McCaw, we've had two bland, shallow-pocketed owners who refused to drop some of their own personal fortune into making a winner. One just flat-out took the team to a place where he figured he could make more money.

Cuban is dedicated to putting a great product on the floor for Dallas fans. He'll gladly pay luxury tax (in an era where every other owner is bending over backwards to avoid it) to bring in players he thinks will improve his team. So if he's got this much invested into it, I fail to see how he can be blamed for trying to protect it. You can throw all the comparisons you like, from other sports and other situations, but the bottom line is that the NBA Insurance Policy for players competing in Internaional Events is a joke. He's more than justified to take this policy to task. I'd much rather have a forward-thinking owner who will push the envelope, than some yes-man who complies with agreements which could cost him in the long run.

I'm not sure what you're on about with the inferiority complex, but I have never thought that Canada wasn't worthy of having Nash play for them. He owes a lot to the National program for jumpstarting his career at Santa Clara, which paved the way for NBA success. I agree with Cuban on all his player issues, which also include the German team taking Nowitzki and Bradley. Would a Kraut quoting the same argument as I have also be guilty of an inferiority complex? C'mon man, give me a little more credit than that.
 

Reccos

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Credit where credit is due...

Sensei you make very valid points that are extremely hard to take issue with except that I believe it is valid to compare basketball to soccer and the World Cup.

I can't debate the insurance issues as I don't have the details well enough understood but I do recall the US Olympic "dream team" and I don't recall the US players being told they couldn't play. What's changed since then? I also concede that Dallas is giving up a significant number of players to national teams and that must be a concern to the owner, yes. I will also concede that basketball unlike sports like soccer and hockey comes down to fewer players making a difference between losing and winning.

One final point: how much of an influence on the Cuban position is the fact that the governing body for basketball, unlike FIFA, have no control over the NBA? By the way I am not arguing that they should have more control.

Sensei - your points are well taken and you make a very persuasive case. See how articulate your posts are on this, because you are responding to my posts that you don't agree with? You should be a sports journalist it is so well written and argued!!! Not Dude though as he didn't know who George Best was and is not aware that some top soccer players are up there in the millions range for annual earnings from their clubs.

My response may well have been more from a frustrated perspective to see so many people pumped up about the national team and this guy (Nash) playing here Friday only to find out his owner isn't approving at what is the eleventh hour.
 

Dude

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Reccos,

Soccer players do OK, but on the big scale, they don't do as well as basketball players, or any of the top four NA Sports. Who's the world’s highest paid player, Zidane? I think at something like $10m? Think about how many B-Ball players average that over their 10+ year contracts.

It's obscene, but it makes the difference with the insurance issue. Also, USA Basketball obviously provides better coverage, or they would be dealing w/ the same issues.

Didn't George Best play for the Celtic? I hear he could crossover like nobodies business.;)
 

Reccos

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Last Post on this topic...

I see the "Cuban Missive Crisis" has taken on a new dimension today. Nash says it is because he has 4 starters on different national teams and Cuban is pissed that the NBA won't lift the luxury tax on the player's salary if they get hurt.

What I am most sympathetic to is Nash's concern that he is simply playing too much for too long. I hadn't realized that he hasn't had a break in 10 years or something like that. In that case, I don't see why he couldn't take a year or two off and only play in the big years.

Or maybe in basketball they should leave it to the amateurs and semi-pros and forget NBA guys.

Dude - you are right on the salaries for the most part. But don't forget the top soccer guys make huge dollars and there are a lot of them.

At least Nash will play in Vancouver Friday. That' got to be good for him and the fans who bought tickets to see him and from what I hear that is a key reason for local interest in this game.
 

john

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Cuban is spot on with his concerns..........as is any other sports owner that has players playing elsewhere when under contract to someone else.

As for the $200K, if that all that it is I am sure Nash will be playing, he's just that kind of guy. Someone out there will work with him and Triano and find a back door sponsorship deal. They'll pay the program the money for Nash to make some appearances etc.........

Nash is so much like Gretzky was/is for hockey. He is total class and does stuff for non monetary(sp) value for himself to payback those people/programs back that have got him to where he is today!

John
 

Dude

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Just heard that Nash has pulled himself out of the tourney. He says he's burned out, and needs the rest. Seems like the best way out, politically.

Does this WC tourney have any consequence, besides world ranking and bragging rights (i.e.: Olympic Qualifying)?
 

ParkHead

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UsA losers

Not that anyone really cares or anything but how good is it to see the US team lose. I have to admit it looks good on them. Unbelievable in a way, on their home court, priceless.

The players on this team will never live this one down. There is nothing like watching an american team lose, especially one that everyone said can't lose.



HAHAHAHA
 

One Dart

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A loss is a loss but....

They can, and probably will, still win. To be honest after Canada lost to Angola, I lost interest, I didn't even know that it was still going on. There's no way that the Americans lose two games in one tourney though.
 

sensei_hanson

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Argentina have a very strong squad.

Scola and Ginobili are playing with the Spurs this season, Ginobili is apparently the #2 pre-season favourite for ROY behind Caron Butler.

Pepe Sanchez was a good PG at Temple and saw some burn with Philly in his rookie year - Reuben Wolwoyski (SP?) has bounced around a few NBA teams during his career.

Simply put, it was about time that the USA lost using NBA players (especially when the best ones opt not to play) - Andre Miller has looked awful thus far. And Ben Wallace isn't providing much at either end of the floor. I know, I know, this guy is a defensive stalwart, but he just looks lost playing the international game.
 

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