2018 Whitecaps

[mtkb]

see, there it is... "especially the upper class or bourgeoise"... I'm with you on the "we need to develop players from all socioeconomic backgrounds", but Foucault as the magic solution to the Whitecaps' problems... not so much...

 

[Soccer Coach]

see, there it is... "especially the upper class or bourgeoise"... I'm with you on the "we need to develop players from all socioeconomic backgrounds", but Foucault as the magic solution to the Whitecaps' problems... not so much...

Football is really the ballet of the working classes. The best players come from those sectors of society. Yes, you will find the rare exceptions like Pirlo, Kaka, Pique, Redondo, and few others. I agree that those with privileged with money should have the opportunity to play too, but those guys sooner or later take themselves out of the competition. It is really tough to be a professional football player. For example, Kendall Watson and Cristian Techera (some of the best players from the Whitecaps) do not come from the upper classes in Latin America. Guys from the upper and middle classes simply do not have the grit to REALLY compete in a soccer field.

 

[4STGMP]

Football is really the ballet of the working classes. The best players come from those sectors of society. Yes, you will find the rare exceptions like Pirlo, Kaka, Pique, Redondo, and few others. I agree that those with privileged with money should have the opportunity to play too, but those guys sooner or later take themselves out of the competition. It is really tough to be a professional football player. For example, Kendall Watson and Cristian Techera (some of the best players from the Whitecaps) do not come from the upper classes in Latin America. Guys from the upper and middle classes simply do not have the grit to REALLY compete in a soccer field.

Soccer coach

In all seriousness and honesty I ask - what do you do for a living?

 

[Soccer Coach]

Soccer coach

In all seriousness and honesty I ask - what do you do for a living?

It does not matter. This is just for fun kid.

 

[Soccer Coach]

On another note...any predictions on the game against Colorado?
If they lose this one, I really quit watching these guys.

 

[Dude]

Football is really the ballet of the working classes. The best players come from those sectors of society. Yes, you will find the rare exceptions like Pirlo, Kaka, Pique, Redondo, and few others. I agree that those with privileged with money should have the opportunity to play too, but those guys sooner or later take themselves out of the competition. It is really tough to be a professional football player. For example, Kendall Watson and Cristian Techera (some of the best players from the Whitecaps) do not come from the upper classes in Latin America. Guys from the upper and middle classes simply do not have the grit to REALLY compete in a soccer field.

You tend to get a bit carried away at times, but on this I am in 100% agreement, but that's nothing new. Ever since the HPL (now BCPL) came out with their extremely high "pay to play" model, I've been staunchly against it.

Everyone in this game in this country wants to develop it to ultimately compete in the World Cup. In order to do so, there needs to be a means of reaching / identifying the best players from all sectors, regardless of their social / economic standings. There also needs to be a carrot, motivation to create the burning desire to "get there". This isn't a revelation; it's a common theme across all professional sports, basketball maybe being the most relevant and immediate example. Currently, we have a system where- at the top of the youth pyramid- we have limited the opportunities only to the upper middle class and higher, and to make matters more difficult, we have almost no opportunities for those top end players to play professionally in this country.

The Whitecaps have shown by their actions they are not a club providing opportunities to Canadian players. Hell, even when our one poster child came through with a very good performance on Saturday, he was yanked early for a player that- for lack of a better description- is a poor, expensive signing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...if I'm an athletic kid growing up in Central Whaley, and my immigrant parents don't have two nickels to rub together because they are busy working 2 or 3 jobs to but food on the table, I'm choosing to play basketball, not soccer. With 2000 Universities in the US, plus some very good CIS schools here, basketball can at the very least give you a pathway to a very good education, then possibly the NBA or European professional leagues. All for next to no costs, just some shoes and a ball, as the school system takes care of the lion's share of the costs.

We have the identification and top end playing model completely backwards here, and we'll never identify the real diamonds in the rough the way we do things now.

Back to supporting the Caps, @Soccer Coach, I suspect there is a shitty hometown team that you support, for better or worse, wherever it is you actually come from. Either South America or Europe. For a lot of us, that's what the Caps are; they are what we had when we were kids, and all we had. I remember how huge they were when I was 5, we'd actually sing "White is the Color, Soccer is the Game" in kindergarten during circle time. Players would come to the school. There were free clinics everywhere. Carl Valentine was my favorite player only because he was working a booth at Lougheed Mall, and showed me how to strike a ball (naturally, I blame him). I rode my bike down there from Austin & Hickey just to see them. That kind of stuff develops long term, undying loyalty. No matter how backwards the current regime is running things...and indeed, they are completely out to lunch. It's just almost impossible for a lot of us to not care.

 

[Dude]

As for Colorado...the Caps are in deep trouble defensively. How bad was Ghazal as a CB? My goodness, he was lost. Why the gaffer wouldn't play Maund instead is beyond me. Shows how deep his fear for his job and lack of trust is. Same with the WTF sub of Tiebert for Juarez. That one screamed of politics, trying to force this guy and his gross contract in when, really, it should have been Filipe if any. Even then...a completely wasted sub.

You have a bad combination of a porous backline, a manager that would rather play guys out of position rather than the spots they were signed for, and losing your one effective defender.

Where is Henry, BTW? He was loaned out, no? Can he be recalled? Is he healthy?

 

[Gurps]

Henry should be back this week. He was sent to Ottawa for match fitness. Will be some combo of him/Aja/Maund in the middle.

 

[Dude]

Would rather see Aja and Henry, only because I see Henry as a better player than Maund, and more athletic, too. Too bad that he apparently has no immune system and is made of glass.

Watch Robo put him at Right Back, LOL.

 

[Gurps]

I agree as well Aja and Henry in the middle seems like the best choice. I still think Henry has a lot of potential but as you said his injuries have impacted him.

 

[Soccer Coach]

You tend to get a bit carried away at times, but on this I am in 100% agreement, but that's nothing new. Ever since the HPL (now BCPL) came out with their extremely high "pay to play" model, I've been staunchly against it.

Everyone in this game in this country wants to develop it to ultimately compete in the World Cup. In order to do so, there needs to be a means of reaching / identifying the best players from all sectors, regardless of their social / economic standings. There also needs to be a carrot, motivation to create the burning desire to "get there". This isn't a revelation; it's a common theme across all professional sports, basketball maybe being the most relevant and immediate example. Currently, we have a system where- at the top of the youth pyramid- we have limited the opportunities only to the upper middle class and higher, and to make matters more difficult, we have almost no opportunities for those top end players to play professionally in this country.

The Whitecaps have shown by their actions they are not a club providing opportunities to Canadian players. Hell, even when our one poster child came through with a very good performance on Saturday, he was yanked early for a player that- for lack of a better description- is a poor, expensive signing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...if I'm an athletic kid growing up in Central Whaley, and my immigrant parents don't have two nickels to rub together because they are busy working 2 or 3 jobs to but food on the table, I'm choosing to play basketball, not soccer. With 2000 Universities in the US, plus some very good CIS schools here, basketball can at the very least give you a pathway to a very good education, then possibly the NBA or European professional leagues. All for next to no costs, just some shoes and a ball, as the school system takes care of the lion's share of the costs.

We have the identification and top end playing model completely backwards here, and we'll never identify the real diamonds in the rough the way we do things now.

Back to supporting the Caps, @Soccer Coach, I suspect there is a shitty hometown team that you support, for better or worse, wherever it is you actually come from. Either South America or Europe. For a lot of us, that's what the Caps are; they are what we had when we were kids, and all we had. I remember how huge they were when I was 5, we'd actually sing "White is the Color, Soccer is the Game" in kindergarten during circle time. Players would come to the school. There were free clinics everywhere. Carl Valentine was my favorite player only because he was working a booth at Lougheed Mall, and showed me how to strike a ball (naturally, I blame him). I rode my bike down there from Austin & Hickey just to see them. That kind of stuff develops long term, undying loyalty. No matter how backwards the current regime is running things...and indeed, they are completely out to lunch. It's just almost impossible for a lot of us to not care.

You make very good points @Dude. I see this. Many of you have a very strong attachment to the Whitecaps because of childhood experiences. This is to be respected, and to some degree management is taking advantage of your loyalty to the club.

 

[Soccer Coach]

@Dude.... me too ... I want that Canada qualifies to the world cup and becomes a powerhouse in Concacaf.... remember.... I do speak Spanish, so I know first hand how the other countries in the area laugh and mock Canadian Soccer....believe me.... I do not like it.... it was a first step what Toronto FC did recently because it starts to build some respect, but when it comes to the National Team the other countries in the area completely dismiss it and belittle it....we really need to change things here....

 

[akslop]

Soccer coach

In all seriousness and honesty I ask - what do you do for a living?

He works in the film industry. I think the correct term is "Fluffer"

 

[mtkb]

In limited fairness to the BCSPL, and to soccer generally, on the womens' side many BCSPL players end up with good scholarships to play good soccer both stateside and here in Canada...

Back in the pre-BCSPL days, I was involved with the Burnaby Selects. We had no technical director, paid our coaches honorariums only (which covered gas if they were lucky), had the smallest catchment area of any metro league club, and, being centrally located, were quite vulnerable to losing "out of districts" to multiple neighbouring clubs "coughevilmetrofordcough"... yet, our teams were all sniffing around the top of the table on a sustained basis...

why? because we charged $500 for the year, inclusive of everything. the recent immigrant from Africa who settles in southeast Burnaby? what sport might they have a passing familiarity with? $2000 plus plus isn't happening; $500 reduced by kidsport / other hardship money? now we're talking...

I can tell you with absolute certainty that a lot of our hardship players were also some of our best players... although we did our best to bring them along to the BCSPL and keep the pipeline / hardship support open, you're just not going to capture the same number of players of modest means when the sticker price is what it is... one day, hopefully, we'll learn that lesson...

 

[Dude]

In limited fairness to the BCSPL, and to soccer generally, on the womens' side many BCSPL players end up with good scholarships to play good soccer both stateside and here in Canada...

Back in the pre-BCSPL days, I was involved with the Burnaby Selects. We had no technical director, paid our coaches honorariums only (which covered gas if they were lucky), had the smallest catchment area of any metro league club, and, being centrally located, were quite vulnerable to losing "out of districts" to multiple neighbouring clubs "coughevilmetrofordcough"... yet, our teams were all sniffing around the top of the table on a sustained basis...

why? because we charged $500 for the year, inclusive of everything. the recent immigrant from Africa who settles in southeast Burnaby? what sport might they have a passing familiarity with? $2000 plus plus isn't happening; $500 reduced by kidsport / other hardship money? now we're talking...

I can tell you with absolute certainty that a lot of our hardship players were also some of our best players... although we did our best to bring them along to the BCSPL and keep the pipeline / hardship support open, you're just not going to capture the same number of players of modest means when the sticker price is what it is... one day, hopefully, we'll learn that lesson...

The underlying message here is that we've had to go through this to get to where ultimately we want to go. I get that. My issue is, the needle has only moved towards more costs for elite players, not less, and the identification problem has only worsened, not improved.

I can't honestly comment on the actual coaching aspect, as to weather we are seeing improvement across the board. I hope so, and I think so, given how many courses are now available...but I've also been guilty of only caring about my little world with the kids I've coached, mostly out of frustration of the politics in the club I was at, and the extreme difficulty I had in having meaningful conversations about how we should be promoting girls (looking at you, Surrey United). I honestly thing the level of quality coaching has improved a fair bit over the last 10 years. More former players stepping in to help, more parents that were players taking ownership. That's a good thing.

There has to come a reconciling soon whereby the "system" as we know it sees that we have to get to the micro model you had at the club, but also make it known that talent will no longer be allowed to fall through. That takes serious commitment, and money...I can't help but think that ultimately, funds from the Professional clubs in Canada needs to start trickling in for finders fees and such, to be reinvested back into identification and development. To my knowledge, it isn't now.

 

[mtkb]

I was sort of kidding about that Metro-Ford crack djones.... sort of

 

[Rangerforever]

I laughed when I read that as I think my kid's team nicked a couple of Burnaby Selects boys the year before BCSPL. (HPL then)
And another one or two later I believe who Mountain didn't rate.
The Fools.

 

[machel]

We'll probably never see this again and I don't know exactly how they get the rating but Doneil Henry is tops on the MLS Audi Player Index Rating! Well done sir.

 

[Dude]

More proof Robo is an idiot.

http://theprovince.com/sports/socce...eason-needs-to-be-about-winning-for-whitecaps

Everyone who is anyone knows, ice cream is the key to unlocking your inner Alphonzo Davies. It was, in fact, pioneered on the fields of Cloverdale, Surrey.

True story.

 

[akslop]

Thread closed. See Whitecaps 2019 thread.