2018 BC Mens Provincial A Cup - Draw, Predictions, Results & Banter

[OldMilwaukeeFC]

'Canucks4Ever' has referred to this as a 'tipping point' a couple times now and I fully agree... We're in a stage where we have local 'beer leagues' facilitating high class players, which is absolutely fantastic but is very very different then a group of guys grabbing a ball and forming a team (a team made up of School Teachers, Business Owners, Construction workers, etc).

It's great that some of you out there, paid or not, are organized and have enough time/resources/education to understand all the rules & regulations when it comes the Canadian soccer and I'm sure your club(s) continue to succeed. Now for Aldergrove (and most FVSL clubs) soccer is a passion but definitely not a career. Five years ago Aldergrove was in Division 1 of the FVSL where they had been stuck for 3 years trying to fight their way back into Prem... With no coach, no practices, no support they won Division 1 and got promoted back into the Premier League... A bunch of degenerate alcoholics found a way to win... Since then Aldy has continued to succeed (all while every single player pays $450/year for registration... Yes, even Hildebrant and the player in question regarding the ITC form).

Now, my point isn't to feel sorry for Aldergrove, they got 'demolished' by the Rino's who were truly the better side that day. I don't think the scoreline accurately assessed the gap between the two teams but thats neither here nor there. My point is, at what point can we look at the organization(s) in charge to lend a helping hand to clubs simply trying to make a name for themselves in an honest way - or does everyone actually think that the FVSL 'execs' had no idea about these players from overseas.

So with this background knowledge let's now look through the eyes of a FVSL Premier Coach, and for arguments sake we'll keep it with Aldergrove. How should Rob proceed in ensuring he doesn't have any illegal players? There is no mention on the FVSL website of an ITC form or international players (I've included a couple screen shots below). So, inform the league 'execs' and see what they say would be the prudent next step - again, if anyone thinks the FVSL was in the dark... You're wrong. In my opinion that is all that needs to be done before assuming you don't need any form and Rob Hildebrant did these steps... IN FACT, if you look at the Canadian Soccer website regarding the ITC form (https://www.canadasoccer.com/international-transfer-certificates-s16807) it stats that ... If you are over the age of 18 and not currently registered to a professional team then "Please have your amateur club/team contact its district/P/TSO to apply for an ITC". FVSL and the VMSL have been turning a blind eye for so long that they have let down the clubs trying to compete, with honour, at the amateur level.... VISL must be loving this btw.

I use Aldergrove as an example because it's what I know but it seems very logical that this could be the circumstances with the Rino's and the VMSL as well... Paying players aside since at this point since they were kicked out of the tournament because of an ITC form, and thats it.

It's a broken system... Fix it.

 

[Sir M]

I didn't say they were forced, I am saying they can say they were forced. Anyway, this is bush league and they are involved, directly, indirectly or complicit.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

I think we are all dancing towards the same line of thinking here. ITC is cumbersome, but it is the rules; like it or not. Sometimes you have to shoot a hostage. Hopefully that makes people aware that this issue needs fixing.

The leagues have been ignoring it for years because they can. BC Soccer hasn't been checking and, until now, it has been essentially "Mutually Assured Destruction" that has kept the teams from calling each other out on it. Obviously that is now out the window and, indeed, it is starting to resemble a nuclear holocaust out there. Also VISL is far from immune, just nobody is looking into their paperwork at the moment.

I am not suggesting it is ok to ignore the rules, but FIFA does not exactly make it easy and trying to get a good player to pay $105 on top of his contribution to the team is asking a lot. Especially if that player is potentially not here permanently and would need to pay another fee when he returns home or continues his travels. If the team has deep pockets and is fine with financing this as a cost of doing business for their club then bully for them, but for the smaller, independent teams it is rather burdensome and just another thing that make it difficult for them to attract top players. I think we all want the best players playing in these leagues and keeping the competition at the highest possible level. Now this ITC issue is out in the open while perhaps many were ignorant before because of the culture of ignoring this. Come next season, especially at the highest level, there needs to be a clear, transparent process regarding the requirements and enforcement of these rules moving forward.

I think it is important to differentiate between the ITC issues, which BC Soccer and the leagues are dealing with protests on, and the issue of "paying players." The ITCs themselves have nothing to do with paying players, they are simply the "smoking gun" evidence that is being used to target the teams that are also being accused of allegedly gaining an unfair advantage by paying players for their services in an amateur league. The issue has now blown up and is dragging in all sorts of teams that are not accused of other nefarious behaviours. Two separate issues, just to be clear.

 

[forest1979]

ITC, paying players, just let it go, its the only way forward. The leagues in BC are not going to attract overseas players that could make money anywhere else. .....the level of play is just not good enough.

 

[Canucks4Ever]

ITC, paying players, just let it go, its the only way forward. The leagues in BC are not going to attract overseas players that could make money anywhere else. .....the level of play is just not good enough.

Again, clearly the leagues were letting it go and were happy to do so.

The laws are the laws however, and, like it or not, as it is written currently, the teams protesting the ITC issues are well within their rights.

It would seem the rules must be addressed and CHANGED (if possible) moving forward; no longer simply ignored.

 

[Soccer Coach]

First of all I think we all want the best local football we can possibly get....well it will only happen if players can be paid. I am not saying all because to be honest there are not that many good ones. So why don't we literally open the flood gates, if a team wants to pay someone fine, and think about how much shite this would get rid of. If Surrey (just as an example) want to pay 7 players and Langley (just an example) pay nobody and they get drawn against each other in the cup, I know who I,m rooting for, and if I play with Langley I want to prove something....but whats happening at the moment is just embarrassing to anyone who loves the game.

I hear your sentiment. Perhaps then a local semi-pro league can be started. The Tigers and other clubs can join. This actually would protect the players and ensure their long term and sustained benefit rather than receiving payments on the dark or having all sort of temporary sub optimal situations. You know at some moment the Tigers even had 14 year olds playing on Premier games or players only showing up for a couple of games and then quickly disregarded.They really showed little regard for the long term well being of the players.

It is important to protect Amateur soccer. I know that some of you do not see the value of it, or why FIFA takes great lengths to make distinctions and has cumbersome procedures. However, amateur soccer provides the base for Semi-Pro and Pro Soccer. As one of the posters expressed with eloquence {these competitions are for the teacher, construction worker, mechanic, factory worker, farmer, etc}.

There is something else that you should consider. Having this free for all kind of approach also leaves the door wild open for match fixing and the involvement of organized crime.

Perhaps this is what upset Claudio and Chile. The Tigers have been dispatching teams with ease including Westside by a convincing 5-1 and shortly after the FVSL team by 6-0. Campo Atletico have been losing game after game, some even like 7-1. Then, suddenly the Tigers lose 4-2 to them.
I can see why Chile would be upset. If this team is not properly regulated all sort of undesirable scenarios will continue appear (i.e. match fixing, betting, young players competing at wrong levels, etc). I am not proposing to disband them. I am simply saying sit with them and provide a framework for them to train/pay people.

 

[forest1979]

Soccercoach, I don't think I know you, and you may coach a premier team, but please give your head a shake, we are talking about basically leaving the leagues as they are and losing the bullshit that has basically made this years competition a laughing stock. The, tinker, the tailor, the schoolteacher, can all play in div2 if they feel threatened...on the other hand they may want to try and get better...with regard match fixing....yes, I,ve decided what level you coach/

 

[Soccer Coach]

Soccercoach, I don't think I know you, and you may coach a premier team, but please give your head a shake, we are talking about basically leaving the leagues as they are and losing the bullshit that has basically made this years competition a laughing stock. The, tinker, the tailor, the schoolteacher, can all play in div2 if they feel threatened...on the other hand they may want to try and get better...with regard match fixing....yes, I,ve decided what level you coach/

oh well, then leave it the way it is, but do not come complaining when the CSA and FIFA starts to give suspensions to players or even the league.

 

[Dude]

I didn't say they were forced, I am saying they can say they were forced. Anyway, this is bush league and they are involved, directly, indirectly or complicit.

Fcuk you are a pompous ass. They are involved only because their league signed a protest against their wishes. What part of that don’t you understand? Complicit? Really? Suck a dick.

 

[machel]

you decide to take down another team and in the process your team itself was contravening the same fcuking rule so you wouldn't have moved on anyways. It's laughable. What's the point of this? Couldn't you have just taken it on the chin and waited til the tournament was over?

I'm a little slow but I get it now.
FVSL protests Rino's on the ITC to progress Langley through to the Semi-final. I wonder if Mills knew about Aldy's ITC issue. If he did then that's Lex Luthor type of evil.

yesIquotedmyself

 

[SmartCoach]

Soccercoach, I don't think I know you, and you may coach a premier team, but please give your head a shake, we are talking about basically leaving the leagues as they are and losing the bullshit that has basically made this years competition a laughing stock. The, tinker, the tailor, the schoolteacher, can all play in div2 if they feel threatened...on the other hand they may want to try and get better...with regard match fixing....yes, I,ve decided what level you coach/

He was coach of Campo Div 1 till he was asked to leave
2016 / 2017 season just before the end
And they got promoted to prem because Surrey Untd
Went back to play in the Valley so third place team got to go up
As these stupid comments about us is irresponsible we played Campo 9pm on a wed night last game regular season
We had only 11 players and they were fighting for there lives to stay up
Unlike last game Chile played vs Metro ford
Chile players were not at prem level they proved that by there games during the season
The Westside game ubc recalled there players for a exhibition game on Vancouver Island
At least 6 starters from Westside Were missing they had to use some div 2 players
We have a top coach and never plays to lose
He is very upset if we lose
We now know who caused these problems
I am very disturbed by the actions of some Vmsl prem team who are not used to losing
One is a bad loser and a very bad winner
The biggest problem is there manager
If can’t take losing try ultimate

 

[Canucks4Ever]

He was coach of Campo Div 1 till he was asked to leave
2016 / 2017 season just before the end
And they got promoted to prem because Surrey Untd
Went back to play in the Valley so third place team got to go up

Quick fact check on that one. They got promoted from Div 2 to Div 1 because Surrey went back to FVSL. They won their way into Premier fair and square as runners up to you guys.

 

[SmartCoach]

Quick fact check on that one. They got promoted from Div 2 to Div 1 because Surrey went back to FVSL. They won their way into Premier fair and square as runners up to you guys.

Ok lucky team agree

 

[Dude]

Ok lucky team agree

Gonna call BS on that. They won their way up, sure didn’t look like a cake walk either.

 

[Soccer Coach]

Quick fact check on that one. They got promoted from Div 2 to Div 1 because Surrey went back to FVSL. They won their way into Premier fair and square as runners up to you guys.

It is clear that Rinos threw the game by only bringing 11 players (some even from lower divisions). I guess the Saudis did not open their wallet.
The Chile guys have a valid point to be upset.
As for the clarification, it is right. The promotion to Division 1 happened because Surrey left for the FVSL, but it was deserved (though it became murky because Norvan had some claim to it). The promotion to Premier was won properly and was the result of the the two years of work. No regrets on the departure as I am not coaching to please parents or players who I do not think that should be on the pitch. It is clear to me who deserves to be in the pitch and how the team should play. I would have never allowed those embarrassing 8-0 and 7-1. Anyway, I am glad that they stayed on Premier and you guys got expelled from the Cup for your constant and shameful cheating. If the VMSL does the right thing, the Tigers should be expelled from the league too.

They really nailed you well....I must say whoever was behind this is a genius...

 

[Soccer Coach]

 

[Sir M]

Calm down man. I wonder if the principled FVSL team would have made a conscientious objection to this protest they had absolutely nothing to do with and not accepted moving on in the tournament if they got away with it.

They got humiliated by a 6-0 score. They and or their league tried to win on a bush league protest and got bit.

 

[Gurps]

@Soccer Coach are you coaching Chile by chance next season?

 

[Dude]

Calm down man. I wonder if the principled FVSL team would have made a conscientious objection to this protest they had absolutely nothing to do with and not accepted moving on in the tournament if they got away with it.

They got humiliated by a 6-0 score. They and or their league tried to win on a bush league protest and got bit.

And you are being very typically pompous. Put away the detective hat. It's a known fact that Rob Hildebrandt did not agree to, consent to, or sign the protest. The league signed it "on his behalf". Hell, I didn't even dig this up, because to his credit Robbie is keeping quiet on this till it's all sorted. @GoF I believe dug this up and put it up on AFTN.ca. This is why I ask, after it's been written about and clear as day, what part do you not understand? Explain that to me, the part you don't understand. As to weather they'd have played? I haven't asked him, but I know him well enough to hazard a guess that 99% they would have refused to play. Why? Well, beyond knowing his character would not allow him, and I know his team would not want to play under such circumstances, I know because THEY DIDN'T PROTEST THE MATCH!

This: "They got humiliated by a 6-0 score. THEIR league tried to win on a bush league protest and got bit", is 100% accurate.

 

[Soccer Coach]

@Soccer Coach are you coaching Chile by chance next season?

No, I do not think so. They made an offer, but I do not want to move to Santiago. They also did not make the right economic offer. Thus, Reinaldo will coach them. I hope that they do well in the next qualifier.