2015 Gold Cup

[Regs]

@Mr. Rempa

What are your thoughts on players you see today as compared to 10 years ago? You as well should be in a good position to comment!

Cheers,

Regs.

 

[Bronco]

Players are bigger, faster, stronger today. Having said that they are far less technically sound than 15-20 years ago. We are breeding athletes, not footballers.

 

[Ballbaby]

I've been saying for years that we need a "Domestic League".
It makes no sense to run all of these development programs and keep bragging about how successful they are, when the truth is, no-one gets to develop into a "Professional Player".
There is simply, nowhere to go. They are not ready to go to Europe, not ready for MLS.
A domestic League would give players, graduating from Youth Soccer a place to nurture and grow as a "Player" not just an academy robot.
Somewhere to actually develop and possibly be seen by MLS teams, as well as have a better chance to get a look in Europe.
Every year, there must be 20+ players leave the Whitecaps academy, where do they go?
All of that "Development" & thrown out, with nowhere to go.
Some will go to University & people will say that's development, but they would go anyway, even if there were no academies. The best will still get scholarships.

The CSA need to develop a league, before developing players.
I know it costs money.
Who will pay?
The players.
Use the money that the CSA gets and subsidize a League for 15 years, until it becomes "established".
Only then will the academy players be able to truly develop.
I think the cart is before the horse.

It will always be the quality of people within any league or system that will determine whether the desired objectives will be met. I am very disillusioned after all these years, and numerous personal experiences, that the chosen technical soccer people in our country have forged themselves in an environment that has no accountability. There are some good ones. There are some average to poor ones. My opinion of course. They are able to do whatever they want, make decisions on whoever they want, with many excuses ready to go if it doesn't go right.

I've played the political game so long, to try and not have my player's opportunities ruined based on my outspoken ways, but I've burned some bridges. I am a square plug in a round hole in their eyes, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm reaching my tenure. Some will be happy to hear that. We have poured so much money into technical development and our rankings have plummeted. As long as they can keep blaming it on grassroots and club coaches, this trend will continue. Over the last 20 plus years, clubs/coaches/teams/academies have organized themselves to function in a dysfunctional environment. Many have done a great job and it would be very difficult to expect these entities to simply buy into CSA initiatives when their track record is simply better.

Domestic league is CRITICAL, but like I stated, it is the people within any structure/system/league that make it work. We need to get the right people. The right people are oppressed IMO.

 

[Ballbaby]

Players are bigger, faster, stronger today. Having said that they are far less technically sound than 15-20 years ago. We are breeding athletes, not footballers.

Bronco, I would venture to say that the athletic players are the most desired by those above, but they will state otherwise, I am sure. I believe we have created a larger pool of technically talented players, but of lower competitive substance. Competitive meaning - technically capable, physically fit,situationally intelligent, pain tolerant, mentally strong, mature, and despising losing.

The best coaches develop players to become as competitive as they possibly can. Many of the coaches capable of doing this have not been empowered in this country. In fact, they are considered obsolete and invalid by the modern regime in Canada. You have to ask why.

 

[Dude]

Bronco, I would venture to say that the athletic players are the most desired by those above, but they will state otherwise, I am sure. I believe we have created a larger pool of technically talented players, but of lower competitive substance. Competitive meaning - technically capable, physically fit,situationally intelligent, pain tolerant, mentally strong, mature, and despising losing.

The best coaches develop players to become as competitive as they possibly can. Many of the coaches capable of doing this have not been empowered in this country. In fact, they are considered obsolete and invalid by the modern regime in Canada. You have to ask why.

YES, YES, YES!

And, it has to start at the grassroots level.

That kid that has the ball, wants the ball, and will run across a field to kick a kid win it? That doesn't want to share? That at 7 is pised off at losing? That wants to play, no matter what the conditions? That kicks back when kicked? That may cry after getting clattered, but wants right back out? The kid that HATES coming off, and makes a big deal about it? That is hyper active? That has a tough time focusing, but when you get his attention, he does EXACTLY what you are teaching? The "difficult" kid nobody wants?

I want that kid. Because those kids turn into the kids Balls is describing, with the right coaching. That, or we allow the PC police to win, and we lose the kid to hockey. Where they welcome that kid with open arms.

 

[Dude]

No difference in the quality of players going to University.
When the CSL was up & running, there were a lot of players who went to UBC, as well as playing CSL.
I would say that the standard was far better then.
If I am not mistaken, the LAST PLAYERS to be "developed" from BC were:
Mark Watson
Carlo Corizzan
Nick Dasovic
They all played in Europe & had what I would call a "professional career".

With all of the money being spent on Player Development" now, where is the end product?
Player development has gone backwards since the Domestic League folded.
The CSL may not have been as good as the MLS, but it gave Canadians a platform to develop & be seen by scouts, who then got them to the next level.
That is the missing link.
But, I have to question the whole philosophy of the "Dev Program".
It's more of a business now, with youth players paying a fortune to play.
I've always found that the best players come from poor families, the current system seems to deny them the chance to compete at the best level provided.
The Academies also seem to have a failing grade, as we have yet to see anyone come out of them & play at the top level anywhere.
They've been going a long time now & the results have not lived up to the hype that they put out.
There are better Coaches at most clubs than we have at the big academy, yet we have to send our best players there to get better.

I would love to see a round table meeting with all parties to discuss the way forward, to grow the game.
It will never happen, as anyone with any experience, or something to offer will never be invited.
I suppose the "Powers that be" think all is going well.

This point has been my jihad on the BCPL, and high level football in general: "I've always found that the best players come from poor families, the current system seems to deny them the chance to compete at the best level provided."

Balls, you and I have talked about this many a time.

I'm a poor kid that got the opportunities to play at a reasonably high level. Eventually, my cement foot limited my growth, but if it weren't for great coaches in great programs, like John Retalick, and Willie Azzie, making sure the kids who deserved got a chance to play at the higher levels, I would not have been able to pursue my love of playing. I know for sure there were years my mum couldn't pay for registration.

We as a soccer community have completely lost the plot on this one point.

We are not an individual sport where athlete success is as much dependent on the athlete's families' ability to mortgage the future on the athlete's dream, or simply pay it outright. Hockey became that a long time ago. More individual low profile Olympic events are such (skiing, cycling, gymnastics, the list goes on). We are football, and it is a fcuking shame that we can't find a way for the best players to get to the highest level, that we have allowed bank accounts, as much as anything, dictate player progression. Makes me fcuking sick.

Secondly, Jigsaw, I will correct you on one thing about development: without the domestic league, it has been a vacuum. MLS opened a small hole in that vacuum, but we definitely need that pathway in between, where the tallent can mature in a proper professional environment at reasonable professional wages. And yes, it needs to be subsidized, it's the only way...cause th grassroots level and monetary issues will not fix themselves...but at least the hope will be that we can still graduate enough to that CSL level where then the league takes care of itself.

 

[cascadesoccer]

not ONE open play goal since 2009. We need a telethon.

 

[Regs]

You mean just in the Gold Cup, correct?

 

[akslop]

Does anyone know if we would have gone through if we didnt give up that goal in injury time to Jamaica?

Victor should buck up and pay to Host Micronesia over here for a few games before Next round of WCQ starts.

 

[Regs]

I think it would depend upon the outcome of the Guatemala v Cuba match tonight... a draw there would have seen Canada through

 

[Regs]

In other Gold Cup news, Waston has been called up by Costa Rica for the Knock-out rounds.

 

[Bronco]

In other Gold Cup news, Waston has been called up by Costa Rica for the Knock-out rounds.

Fantastic, he can take his flopping to the next level

 

[cascadesoccer]

You mean just in the Gold Cup, correct?

yes thats correct.

 

[djones]

Thoroughly enjoyed the Mexico/T and T game tonight!

1-0 at the half for Mexico.
2-0 Mexico (min 50)
3-2 Trinidad (min 65)
4-3 Mexico (min 90)
4-4 (min 93)

T and T's Kenwynne Jones was a major contributor on 5 goals - 3 for his team (either scoring or setting them up) and two for Mexico (terrible back pass and an OG). What a game!

And T and T won the group!

This tournament has been sooooo good. I've really enjoyed it!

It seems like everyone is taking this tournament way more seriously than in the past. Makes for some really good footy!

If there was ever a year where Canada Soccer has shown that we have deeply fallen off the pace it's this year. We hosted the WWC, are hosting the Pan Am Games and now a game in the Gold Cup in front of our fans and media. As Jigsaw has said many, many times.... If this was hockey, there would be a major national inquiry by the sport governing body and government. It will be interesting to see what comes next.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Jonesy, the last bit of your post sums up a HUGE part of the problem. Guys with massive egos running the show THINKING they know all because a piece of paper says so who REALLY don't understand how to work with players ABILITIES before they shut players down for their INABILITIES. They have it ALL wrong. Until the CSA gets rid of the apparently untouchable pilons we will continue to produce records like we did this Gold Cup. Until people 'above' are held more accountable they will continue to create exceptionally average players from potentially good players because they don't know how to tap into a players positive attributes. The Beep Test is not be all end all. How is it these players can generally play well for their clubs yet look like in deer in headlights for their national team? They aren't being coached at that level it would appear but yet the blame is being passed down. In some situations coaches are being placed into higher positions...........for no apparent reasons. Anyway, what do I know? I only coach high school, girls U18 gold, and premier/div. 1 soccer. If this were any other country who cares about the development and competitive level of the country, there would have been MAJOR changes at the top when HOnduras battered Canada 8-1...........if not before then.

 

[Regs]

Cuba won last night and went though on 3 points and a -7 GA

That last minute goal vs Jamaica cost Canada going through, all things considered.

Would the dour outlook everyone has had for the last 2 days be different if we went through this way?

 

[trece verde]

Would the dour outlook everyone has had for the last 2 days be different if we went through this way?

Not in the least. Like others have stated, I'll commend Floro for wanting to get a look at all that's available to him, but FFS, you do that in friendlies, not when it's on the line in a tournament. That said, I don't know that Vic's the problem so much as the flunkies under him in the CSA (if we're going to point extra fingers).

Next question: how much training time did Floro get with these guys before throwing them out on the field? Slightly longer than the usual where guys are introducing themselves with handshakes right before kickoff, one hopes, but with the CSA, my expectations are low anyway.

Floro said his team needs more time and games together while Canada needs a second-tier pro league and to ensure that its national age-group teams all play the same type of soccer as the senior squad.

Canada is making progress, he said, perhaps slow progress but the team is moving in the right direction.

Floro fielded a relatively young squad against Costa Rica with the starting 11 totalling 309 caps, 82 of which belonged to captain Julian de Guzman.

Interesting take. I'm not sure I want to give him the benefit of the doubt either. We have a defensive-oriented coach with a player pool who at best are going to lose one-goal games. We have a footy "culture" that can't seem to develop (or possibly more accurately, identify) players who are goal-scorers or creative midfielders at the international level. That said here's a question for the thinkers among you - if you are attempting to change the style of play for a national program as Floro has stated, how long should it be expected to take? You have 4/5 teams including the senior one; that means getting your coaching staff all on the same page too. I don't see this being a short term project, but I don't know how much longer I can be patient for...

 

[robino]

Many delusional views here. If Larkin scores in the first game, they win and go through. He missed an open net, nothing a coach can do. Technically they are not as good as costa rica, or some other countries of course. However, they have been in every game and outplayed Jamaica and Costa Rica. They do not have a stud who can win a game or a natural goal scorer. Avg. international players for majority of part, some below average. I keep hearing and reading about development, however you also have to develop a mentality of winning and how to win. I personally dislike when coaches of u17 and u18hpl teams say its not about winning but about development. Development for what??? You play the game to win.

 

[STD]

 

[Bronco]

Many delusional views here. If Larkin scores in the first game, they win and go through. He missed an open net, nothing a coach can do. Technically they are not as good as costa rica, or some other countries of course. However, they have been in every game and outplayed Jamaica and Costa Rica. They do not have a stud who can win a game or a natural goal scorer. Avg. international players for majority of part, some below average. I keep hearing and reading about development, however you also have to develop a mentality of winning and how to win. I personally dislike when coaches of u17 and u18hpl teams say its not about winning but about development. Development for what??? You play the game to win.

They were in all 3 games. Sure, if by in it you mean humping the ball up the park indiscriminately time and again, while at times looking like key stone cops defending, then yes, they were in every game. Let's look at the opposition.

El Salvador. A minnow in world football and an also ran every 4 years in CONCACAF.

Jamaica, also a 3rd world footballing nation at best that has gotten worse progressively since France 98. Darren Mattocks is on that team folks. Nuf said.

Costa Rica has not won a game this calendar year and are a shadow of the side that reached the final 8 in Brazil.

Canada is light years behind all of them. We are arguably the worst or second worst side in this tournament that can boast having 2 perennial World Cup qualifiers. The U.S. and Mexico lead the way as second world footballing nations.

Here's hoping we host in 2026.