2003 Province Cup (men)

[Sage]

not again...

I know you VMSLers will take the piss about us playing a FVSL team in the first round, but trust me when I say that I wish it was different. I mean, a big part of the excitment that comes from playing in the BCs is to play teams that are "unknown" to you... makes you wonder what it'll be like.
We've been drawn against GEU.... we've already played them three times this year, and the idea of a fourth meeting is soooo boring. Yeah it's a big game, but I would have prefered to play an VISL or VMSL team in round 1 , even if we get spanked..... at least it would be exciting.

 

[cerebral smallsy]

I would have prefered to play an VISL or VMSL team in round 1 , even if we get spanked...

ummm, i'll be the first to call bullshite.
maybe PAU should forfeit in protest to your terrible draw. seems to be the thing to do in FVSL.

 

[fat monkey]

maybe PAU should forfeit in protest to your terrible draw. seems to be the thing to do in FVSL. [/B]

Ummm....if I'm not mistaken, hasn't it been the VMSLers who have been whining about the draw over the past few pages?

 

[Guinness]

Why Change

The problem with Football in Canada (professional or amature) is everyone always follows the American formulas for Cup competitions... Why seed, rank or group certain teams before a match is even played??? I guess that is what the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL do, so soccer should follow suit??? Fcuk that I say... The FA Cup is one of the oldest trophies in the world and it's random roundly draw creates a certain excitement before the big match ups... Arsenal vs Man United one week and then Arsenal gets rewarded by drawing Chelsea in the next... That's the beauty of it... The BC's are no different...
Obviously I am not too upset with this year's draw, but regardless of our fortunate bounce this is what truely makes the BC's the biggest Championship in the province...


My two bits, Guinness


PS. Regardless of what Sage says, I am excited to draw a team we have something to prove to!!! GEU are a big rugged team and there will be no love lost when the whistle blows... A good grudge match makes the BC's unique in a certain way, but it also allows for some good early match ups... It is the BC's, not the VMSL zone playdowns!!!

 

[Hands of Stone]

I think they Need Seeding, to Grow

Originally posted by sensei_hanson
All they really have to do is ensure that each bracket has a VISL, VMSL and FVSL team represented.

What you are saying then SH, is that Games 1 to 8 should have a VMSL team Drawn, so you never get a VMSL team playing against one another. Then out of a Hat you would draw the remaining 8 VISL teams and FVSL teams.

You would not get teams playing each other from the same league which is good, but it would still not be fair to the Top teams of any of the 3 Leagues.
You could still get the Top team from the FVSL or VISL playing the Top VMSL team, but have the 8th place team coming out of VMSL playing the 4th place team from VISL or FVSL.

If the Top teams from each League were seeded, like the NCAA B-Ball tourney, then it would be fair.

So All 3 League winners would be seeded, plus say the Imperial Cup winner.
You still could get Teams from the same league playing each other, but the Top teams would not meet until the semi's.

As for the VMSL whinning about this, no, just looking for a better way. Is it fair that the Top teams in the FVSL are playing each other first round, but the weaker FVSL teams may play weaker competition from other leagues.
Luck of the Draw I guess.

HOS

 

[sensei_hanson]

Guinness...

Gee, if I'm not mistaken, Premiership teams don't compete in the first two FA Cup Rounds. Seems to me like there's a bit of a ranking system in order there....like the top 20 teams in the country getting byes to the third round, while the lower divisional sides battle it out amongst themselves to earn the berths to compete in the third round.

No, wait, you're right, I bet the entire country would approve of Arsenal playing Chelsea in the first round, while Leyton Orient and Kidderminster battle it out to face the winner. That's a brilliant way to go about your business. Everybody likes a good grudge match, like the storied Yeovil v. Cheltenham fixture. I hear it rivals only GEU v. PAU (aka The Battle of the Acronyms) in terms of intensity.

If you're going to start a North American v. the World argument, at least get your shite straight. Nearly every major competition does something to ensure that top teams don't knock each other out in the opening rounds, while lesser lights play each other and advance to the later stages. Even the World Cup pre-ranks teams to avoid conflicts in the group stages. Those FIFA rankings aren't in place just to see if Canada passed Mali for the 72nd spot. It's so they avoid having France and Brazil in the same qualifying group.

The other problem is that the BC's actually do have an open random draw in the opening round, and then they abandon it. I wouldn't actually have a problem if they re-did the draw after the conclusion of each round, but they don't. In fact, it's a pretty decent idea. You might actually have made a point there, which would be a nice change of pace.

 

[Skip]

Half full?......or half empty??

One of the main goals for all FVSL teams in this year's Province Cup is to gain some respectability. Unfortunately, I don't think this draw has set us up for achieving that goal at all. If an FVSL team were to make it to the semis now, we would all have to hear about how we were gifted it by the draw by the VMSL guys. For this reason, I am in agreement with Sage. While I think we have better chance of going through to the second round than we would have if we had drawn a different team, I see it this way; One FVSL team is garaunteed to be knocked out in the first round as the cost of sending another though to the second. One less FVSL team given a chance to gain the respectability we want. Don't get me wrong, the top side of the draw is quite obviously the stronger. Good luck to all.

P.S. Anybody want an exhibition match? We have turf on Tuesday nights.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Want Respect, Win It All

Look at Gorge FC, they were the underdogs two years in a row, but went out an battled and won the B.C.'s two years running.
If the Valley teams want respect, go out and win the whole thing, just don't set your sights on the Semi's.

4 Games, thats all It Takes

HOS

 

[Rangerforever]

Originally posted by sensei_hanson

I hear it rivals only GEU v. PAU (aka The Battle of the Acronyms)

Battle of the Acronyms.

Skip: We'd love to play you on the turf an any Tuesday.


RFlookingtowinitallthisyear

 

[Skip]

Originally posted by Rangerforever
Skip: We'd love to play you on the turf an any Tuesday.

RF, Next time we play you, it'll be in the final of the Provincial Cup.

by the way, where were you boys last night?? Too good to train now?

 

[Rangerforever]

Hey, we knocked off the "shite", we don't need to train now.
That, and we couldn't get our heads through the changeroom doors.

Too many sore bodies from the big win (not mine certainly) and we don't play until the weekend after next.

See ya in the final.

 

[Notty]

Here's how it's posted on the VMSL site

ROUND OF 16--2003-04-12/13

Game 1: Pegasus FC vs VISL League Qualifiers #1

Game 2: GN Sport or SFC Rangers vs VISL Jackson Cup Winners

Game 3: Westside Rino vs Burnaby Canadians

Game 4: Surrey United vs VISL League League Qualifiers #2

Game 5: ICSF Inter vs Khalsa 96ers

Game 6: VISL Jackson Cup Runners-up vs Sporting Club

Game 7: Peace Arch vs Golden Ears

Game 8: Firefighters vs PoCo City or North Delta



QUARTER-FINALS--2003-04-26/27

Game 9: Winner of Game 1 vs Winner of Game 2

Game 10: Winner of Game 3 vs Winner of Game 4

Game 11: Winner of Game 5 vs Winner of Game 6

Game 12: Winner of Game 7 vs Winner of Game 8



SEMI-FINALS--2003-05-03/04

Game 13: Winner of Game 9 vs Winner of Game 10, Saturday at Chilliwack

Game 14: Winner of Game 11 vs Winner of Game 12, Sunday at Chilliwack



FINAL--2003-05-10

Game 15: Winner of Game 13 vs Winner of Game 14 at Royal Athletic Park, Victoria

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Game 15: Winner of Game 13 vs Winner of Game 14 at Royal Athletic Park, Victoria

I'm sure there will be ferry loads of supporters making their way over for the final. Fcuking idiots. I'm glad we're not going to make it to the final this year. Who would want that trip?


P.S. When there are only 16 teams left, I don't think there should be seeding. Sensei, you're right about the premier teams not joining in until the third/fourth round, but after that, it is all random. As much as people would like the big guns making the final, it certainly creates interest when a team like Sheffield United goes on a run like they are right now. The bottom line is in order to win the B.C.'s you have to win 4 games and if you do that, then you're legitimate champions. So what if the valley teams make it to the semi's. If they are not good enough, they will be knocked out at that point anyway. It is not like our amateur games draw so many spectators that it would matter one way or the other, whether a valley,island, or vmsl team makes the semis. As much as I would hate to agree with Guinness, a draw is the fairest way because someone would bitch about the seedings anyway.

 

[sensei_hanson]

I guess I just disagree with the notion of having a Provincial Cup semifinal weeding out the crap teams. It's not like underdog runs of the Sheffield Wednesday mold can't come out of a setup where teams are ranked. In fact, this lends more credence to the "underdog" mentality, when you go into a match knowing that the opponent is ranked higher than you and thus, is the favourite to move on. It's all relative, I suppose.

The theory of a random draw is great...it just seems that it doesn't apply itself very well to the Provincials. I mean it's the same brutal debate year after year after year.

But your point is taken, and it is a fair enough assessment - in the end, whoever wins four straight games is the champion. I disagree with the draw idea in principle but this argument has pretty much reached its peak, so let's leave it at that. Nobody wants to agree with Guinness.

 

[Captain Shamrock]

Nobody wants to agree with Guinness.

You're spot on there, Sensei. For the record, it is Sheffield United, not Sheffield Wednesday, who is enjoying FA Cup success. Wednesday is going to be demoted to division two.

 

[Notty]

a draw is the fairest way because someone would bitch about the seedings anyway.

Cap,

This statement is completely wrong...the seeding would be based on how each team does in there respective leagues...the better you do the higher your seeded! Just like the high school b-ball system! This method is a lot more cut and dry than picking names out of a hat. This would restrict haveing 3 or more of the top teams (based on league preformance) on any perticular side.

For example...Peg, Westside, BBY or Van Isl #1, Van Isl #2, Valley #3.

~Notty

 

[crafty cokcney]

Seeding my arse!

If you idiots like the seeding system so much go play fukcing netball or something. With other major league sports there is far too much influence with top clubs and their respective league governing bodies where indorsements and advertising dictate policy. They have to ensure the big boys meet at the lord mayors show so they can be satisfied that they have milked it to its fullest.
I personally hope that seeding never happens and that it remains as is. The FA Cup is a competition that is a good as it gets and a lot of that is because of the format...........Putting your balls in a hat after every round sounds good to me

Cheers

 

[djones]

from an outsider looking in

I understand the liking of the Provincials to the FA Cup etc... but the FA Cup Winner doesn't get a berth into the Champions League (Nationals)... I still think the League Champions should be battling it out for the right to go to Nationals rather than two 4th place finishers in different leagues who happen to get to the finals because of luck of the draw or a run of luck.

Then again, I still think the province should be able to send two representatives (League Champion Tourney Winner and Provincial "FA Cup" Champ) rather than just one . Better than some Inuit team that everyone hammers and gets screwed over because of the bizarre goal for rule (you can win 23-4 and they will only count the first 5 goals so the score looks like a 5-4 win and a +1 in the standings).

When was the last time a BC team finished out of the top two? Firemen '98? Before that? Am I off topic yet?

I know, I know, Metro Ford went to Nationals as an 8th place finisher in the league back in '99. Although we proved worthy champions, I still don't think it's right.

 

[Jinky]

Danny,

Does this mean that if you beat Nanook's mob 24 - 6, that you actually lose 6-5?

I'm going to write a letter to my MP!!

 

[djones]

Believe it...or not!

Believe it or not you get the win but your +/- would be 0 (both team can only receive a maximum of 5 goals). Your goals for would be 5 and your goals against would be 5.

If a team you tied with earlier in your 3 team group played the same team and only squeeked out a 5-4 win, they would go through because of a better +/-.